Author Topic: Jersey 'a step away from independence'  (Read 11337 times)

Offline Tory Boy

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Re: Jersey 'a step away from independence'
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2008, 08:21:34 AM »
Is this really a big issue at the moment?  I mean is it due to happen soon?

Offline churchill

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Re: Jersey 'a step away from independence'
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2008, 11:39:35 AM »
Of course its a major issue.  For those of us who are opposed to total independence from Britain we can not afford to sit back while i know behind closed doors as we speak the bailiff and friends are planning the way forward.

LETS NOT BE CAUGHT OUT ON THIS ONE .

I for one am absolutely against any body taking away my jersey British identity and will lead street demonstrations against those that want to.  The bailiff ( appointed by the crown ) should not even be discussing this .Its dam right betrayal.
I can only come to the conclusion that they have something to hide and that total independence will mean no outside investigations in the future, can be made by independent bodies ,into what states members really have been up to these past 20 or so years.
My belief is that corruption with in the government is wide spread with so much money and such secrecy its too easy for them.
I truly hope that honest men and women will enter the states that truly have the interest of this island and us the population at heart.And not self interest and becoming influenced by the elite that are the powerful movers and shakers here in jersey.
I apologize to no one for standing proud as a British citizen.

CHEERS  ALL.  ALVIN.


Offline boatyboy

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Re: Jersey 'a step away from independence'
« Reply #17 on: August 12, 2009, 01:42:18 AM »
Why I do not know, but this example of how we have all ( including politicians ) been lied to, some how keeps coming back into my head.

After years of giving a good budget to Transport and Technical services ( ex public services ). The Jersey spin telling us that the ultra violet anti bacterial cleansing plant is the best in the world. Unlike Guernsey our sewage treament plant is capable and so good delegations come and see it working. We have all been told this story many times over the years.

The reality is that TTS are pumping sewage into our lovely St. Aubins Bay and have been for a long time. Thats where we sail, jet ski, wind/kite surf and kids swim. So much for respect for the people.

I use this upsetting example of none accountability, incompetence and spin to prove a small point.  If this is an example of the real quality of service the islanders are subjected to (JEP's Peter Body get real )  what chance on Gods earth has this Island of running itself? It wouldn't be quite so bad if some one put their hand up and took responcibility or the CM or Minister in charge called for an investigation. Notice the eerie silence.

This is completely relative to Jersey becoming independent. They can't run the place properly now although some  States members are clearly working hard to bring about change, and their tremendous efforts are starting to get results.

JEP article is selective please click on link below.

Lord William Wallace of Saltaire says that the UK needs to clamp down on CI autonomy – adding that full independence for the islands would be ‘horrifying’.

‘You cannot say that a promise given 800 years ago in totally different circumstances fits in any part today,’ he said. ‘The situation with the Channel Islands is totally different from even 35 years ago because of financial globalisation. ‘

Asked during a visit to Guernsey about the prospect of fully independent Channel Islands, the Liberal peer said: ‘I would be horrified. Small jurisdictions that attract a huge amount of money are very difficult to govern without falling prey to corruption. There are several cases in the Caribbean where exactly that is happening. Guernsey and Jersey are both very small.’

http://www.thisisjersey.com/2009/08/10/peer-ci-self-government-should-not-be-guaranteed/


Boatyboy
« Last Edit: August 12, 2009, 01:53:41 AM by boatyboy »

debumblebee

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Re: Jersey 'a step away from independence'
« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2009, 04:09:55 AM »
Not this old chestnut again! I think it was proved by the G20 Summit in the spring that as far as our offshore finance operations are concerned that we cannot be totally independent. We have always had close ties with the UK and we do need them.  The idea that we can tell the rest of the World to get stuffed is an oxymoron because we would just be choked to death for it. .

Offline Chevalier Blanc

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Re: Jersey 'a step away from independence'
« Reply #19 on: August 12, 2009, 02:15:53 PM »
As i pointed out a few days ago the Jersey Law has the Constables in the States and they have the power to close the States if deemed fit. You cannot have independence unless the Constables are out of the States. Now perhaps you may be able to see why they want the Constables out until they are the establishment cannot take over fully in the way that they would like. Take a look at Ozouf, now imagine independence or one should say Dictatorship because that is what it would be and no outsider would get into the States because there would be no limit on expenses for elections, meaning only the rich could afford to advertise and buy votes. There is nothing more pleasing to any politician in England than having an independent Island like Jersey to be able to put your money into and we all know the power behind the English politician, rich people. An independent Jersey will be the death nail for the ordinary people of this island. So take heed!

Offline stoneface

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Re: Jersey 'a step away from independence'
« Reply #20 on: August 13, 2009, 10:23:06 PM »
Lord William Wallace of Saltaire says that the UK needs to clamp down on CI autonomy – adding that full independence for the islands would be ‘horrifying’.

‘You cannot say that a promise given 800 years ago in totally different circumstances fits in any part today,’ he said.

What horrifies this kleptocrat is that he's spied a source of revenue for his pet policies, and he can't get at it. What, exactly, makes the noble Lord think he is wiser and knows better than eight hundred years worth of his predecessors?

His comments about corruption were a truly brilliant example of chutzpah. As a member of the Parliament of the United Kingdom, it can only be set-a-thief-to-catch-a-thief stuff.

He and his contemporaries have nothing to teach us - apart from what not to do.
"The only freedom which deserves the name is that of pursuing our own good, in our own way, so long as we do not attempt to deprive others of theirs, or impede their efforts to obtain it." - John Stuart Mill

Offline man in the street

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Re: Jersey 'a step away from independence'
« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2009, 05:26:44 PM »
i feel that ordinary folk  have a few spikes in them already chevalier.
 i was listening to the radio about the constables power to remove all those elected, but doubt they ever would play this card, the parish hall can no longer be laid to seige by a angry, hungry ,unemployed mob.

we would certainly need the right leaders to pull off independance.

off topic here ,sorry, in goa they have the no vote when voting in there next lot, so they can vote none of the above.

Offline stoneface

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Re: Jersey 'a step away from independence'
« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2009, 05:53:50 PM »
off topic here ,sorry, in goa they have the no vote when voting in there next lot, so they can vote none of the above.

I believe this would be the best thing we could do for our electoral process: a "re-open nominations" option. Any candidate that polls less than RON can't be elected. If posts are left unfilled, than a special election must be held. It would discourage those without real support, and - particularly in the case of special elections - encourage others (hopefully more competent) to reconsider running.

Running another election might be expensive, but to get better elected officials it is surely worth it. How much does an election cost to run? It can't be as much as three years salary and the unaccountable losses caused by bad representation.

Vote RON!
"The only freedom which deserves the name is that of pursuing our own good, in our own way, so long as we do not attempt to deprive others of theirs, or impede their efforts to obtain it." - John Stuart Mill

Offline Dylan

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Re: Jersey 'a step away from independence'
« Reply #23 on: August 14, 2009, 09:01:23 PM »
The way for this has actually been paved for a total of 943 years!
!dereggub si draobyek ym kniht I

Offline man in the street

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Re: Jersey 'a step away from independence'
« Reply #24 on: August 14, 2009, 11:06:09 PM »
please educate me to what is "ron" ?
 and how ron works

Offline stoneface

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Re: Jersey 'a step away from independence'
« Reply #25 on: August 15, 2009, 12:10:41 PM »
please educate me to what is "ron" ?
 and how ron works

RON stands for "Re-Open Nominations", and appears on the ballot paper with the candidates. It's the equivalent of "none of the above", and works like a vote against candidates. You can use it just like any vote. In, say, an election for Senators with six open seats, you could decide that only four candidates were really competent to do the job, and so vote for them, use your fifth vote for RON and just not use your sixth. This would be the equivalent of saying "these four and none of the others."

As an example, here's the results for the final six at the last Senatorial elections:

CANDIDATES    TOTAL
LE MARQUAND, IAN14238
BRECKON, ALAN10273
MACLEAN, ALAN9094
ROUTIER, PAUL8775
OZOUF, PHILIP 8712
FERGUSON, SARAH8546

Now, lets say that RON polls 8,964 and thus comes in fourth. Le Marquand, Breckon and MacLean are duly elected. Routier, Ozouf and Ferguson are not - nominations are re-opened for the final three seats and another election must be held.

This should stop unpopular candidates scraping in to make up the numbers*. It may give more realistic indications of support, as it means you'll no longer have to vote for a non-entity in the hope of stopping someone you regard as dangerous. It may even raise voter turnout as it becomes possible to actively vote against candidates you don't want. If you currently feel that none of the candidates are worthy of Office, but are going to get in anyway, why would you bother? With RON you can send a very visible message. But even if RON doesn't force a special election, it could serve as a useful barometer of dissatisfaction. The closer RON comes to blocking a candidate, the warier it should make elected politicians, and the more encouragement it should give to outsiders.

(* - Senator Ferguson, since you read this forum I should point out I'm not passing any comment on last year's election results, I'm just using them as an example.)
"The only freedom which deserves the name is that of pursuing our own good, in our own way, so long as we do not attempt to deprive others of theirs, or impede their efforts to obtain it." - John Stuart Mill

rogueelement

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Re: Jersey 'a step away from independence'
« Reply #26 on: August 15, 2009, 05:42:06 PM »
I would hazard a guess that "Ron" could end up the winner , then what?

Offline stoneface

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Re: Jersey 'a step away from independence'
« Reply #27 on: August 15, 2009, 05:45:51 PM »
I would hazard a guess that "Ron" could end up the winner , then what?

We hold another election. Ideally, anyone who was beaten by RON would take the hint, and others would be encouraged to come forward as they would now be viable alternatives.
"The only freedom which deserves the name is that of pursuing our own good, in our own way, so long as we do not attempt to deprive others of theirs, or impede their efforts to obtain it." - John Stuart Mill

Offline man in the street

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Re: Jersey 'a step away from independence'
« Reply #28 on: August 15, 2009, 07:22:44 PM »
thanks stone face i see where you are coming from, i now i understand  ron , what a good idea.
 this lot would never agree to it,and are so thick skinned would not take the hint.

Offline imacrappaud

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Re: Jersey 'a step away from independence'
« Reply #29 on: August 15, 2009, 08:47:45 PM »
Isn't that the biggest problem here with elections. Any idea that could possibly introduce change to the election process is decided by the people who are elected. Obviolusly there are a few who will try but they get shot down in flames because there are more politicians in the states that are scared of change.

Its a complete catch 22 in my mind. The only way this will change is over time when the old boy network is defunct through retirement or die of old age. And even then people who are against it can only hope that the old boy network way of running our government becomes redundant by newly elected politicians not enrolling in the old boy network. Otherwise it just continues once more, you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours. It just goes round and round in circles.