Author Topic: Edward Snowden is he a hero or zero ?  (Read 3611 times)

Offline boatyboy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3467
Edward Snowden is he a hero or zero ?
« on: June 26, 2013, 02:47:38 PM »
William Hague admits to sharing intelligence with the USA to protect our freedoms so he says while not wishing to tell us that they are intelligence gathering. Why would they do that ?If it is for the protection of the public. The same reason maybe that Jersey uses tax money to get involved in secret behind closed door trials. It is all in the best interest of the people. They forgot to explain why, and who is next ?

The bottom line is, do you consider Mr Snowdon a good person for opening the eyes of the world, or a traitor as accused by the USA who have now brought charges ?

Guardian. Part of article.

Let us be clear about it: in both our countries intelligence work takes place within a strong legal framework. We operate under the rule of law and are accountable for it. In some countries secret intelligence work is used to control their people – in ours it only exists to protect their freedoms."
But writing in the Guardian, the former Conservative leadership contender David Davis disputes that view, saying Britain's intelligence agencies are only subject to law in theory.

He accuses GCHQ of circumventing "inconvenient laws" by handing over personal data to the US and raises the prospect of "extremely serious violation" of the rights of British citizens over the use of their personal data. The German justice minister, in her letters to Grayling and May, asks for clarification of the legal basis for Project Tempora and demands to know whether "concrete suspicions" trigger the data collection or whether the vast quantities of global email, Facebook postings, internet histories and phone calls are being held for up to 30 days as part of a general trawl.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/jun/25/germany-uk-gchq-internet-surveillance

BB
« Last Edit: July 06, 2013, 02:59:33 PM by boatyboy »

Offline man in the street

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1140
Re: Edward Snowdon is he a hero or zero ?
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2013, 03:03:54 PM »
Hero in my eyes.
 I have no fear of a eastern invasion of muslims.
  If. The yanks kept their nose out of. Things,  then maybe  people. Would not try to  chop it off.
 Who made the. Usa. The masters of. The universe.
  Theres. A app for that,  its called. Surveilance .

Offline boatyboy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3467
Re: Edward Snowden is he a hero or zero ?
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2013, 03:38:05 PM »
Accountability is an easy concept to understand, questions are asked, answers given.

I like transparent Government, except they are not very transparent let us put pressure on, to find out what they are hiding, because as sure as egg's is egg's if they can't give a straight answer they are probably hiding something.

Then you get an exceptionally brave human being like Edward Snowden. From the reports read, did he give away military secrets ? NO, did he give away any secrets NO ? what he did was to tell the world that " Prism " existed, a method used by his and other Governments for collecting information from internet users without their personal or EU countries permission. Snooping at its worst. Are we not innocent until proven guilty ?

Very few people are brave enough to take on such massive international action.

I have read that President Obama is backing down after petitions calling for Mr Snowdon to be made a hero, are rapidly gaining signatures from around the world and I have just signed one actually based in the Whitehouse, although there are others adding to the total asking for him to be pardoned etc.

It's here.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/pardon-edward-snowden/Dp03vGYD

Have a good day, it will probably be a lot better than Mr Snowdens, holed up in a Russia airport with an uncertain future for doing the right thing.

BB
« Last Edit: July 06, 2013, 03:00:28 PM by boatyboy »

Offline danrok

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2856
  • Gender: Male
Re: Edward Snowdon is he a hero or zero ?
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2013, 08:11:33 AM »
That would be Edward Snowden.  ;)

Offline boatyboy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3467
Re: Edward Snowden is he a hero or zero ?
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2013, 02:59:05 PM »
Yep you are right, post duly corrected, hope you put your name on the petition danrock, it only takes a couple of minutes.

Thanks for spotting that.

bb

Offline ageofaquarius

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 860
Re: Edward Snowden is he a hero or zero ?
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2013, 01:32:52 AM »
How strange the world has turned around. Once upon a time the Russians would have been coming to the west for political asylum, now its the other way around. All he has done is be honest by saying 'hey the US is snooping on all of us big style'.

We know a new world order is out there and the US are in charge, good for the man for bringing it to the front page. Give the man a break. I understand he is in no-mans land without a valid passport, hopefully South America will give him refuge.

How ironic, during the 50's, the US were terrified of communism and they are now playing the same tricks themselves. Huh!!

Offline boatyboy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3467
Re: Edward Snowden is he a hero or zero ?
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2013, 07:40:13 PM »


WE PETITION THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION TO:

Pardon Edward Snowden

Edward Snowden is a national hero and should be immediately issued a a full, free, and absolute pardon for any crimes he has committed or may have committed related to blowing the whistle on secret NSA surveillance programs.

Total as of now     =   128,924

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/pardon-edward-snowden/Dp03vGYD

Offline boatyboy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3467
Re: Edward Snowden is he a hero or zero ?
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2013, 04:06:09 PM »


It is nothing to do with the Government, how you have fun in the bedroom, what you eat, how much you may or may not have in the bank, who your friends are, how much you owe on your car. What your credit rating is.

This knowledge is of very great importance to commercial companies who want your money, and therefore try and sell you goods or services, as history shows in illegal ways like insisting you are sold PPI when it is unneeded.

Why should we worry about our personal data being kept and used by government if we are good citizens who have no intention of breaking the law. A snapshot at why they should mind there own business.
In the off chance of something turning up, go catch the real criminals and do what your paid to do.

Intelligence gathering by the police or authorities to pursue national security or criminal enterprise is fine by me. The truth is the Governments like banks have abused their monopoly positions and just cannot be trusted. Illegal ( and legal clampers ) in the UK have been sold information by police. As have a host of commercial companies.

Have you noticed when you occasionally fill out a form they try and slip in personal questions. Married or single, forget it  this makes no difference to applying for a driving license or some other mundane document.

As a close relative asked the question, what has the Governments here and in Europe, done with all the taxes we have paid over decades to be so broke ?
That is another issue, but they always want more and they cannot be trusted just like most banks, is that what they are really after, how much more money can we squeeze out of them ?

Please sign the USA petition who are not happy they have been caught with there trousers down. and copy it to other websites. It is outrageous that your everyday emails and personal life are being read by Government.

TOP SECRET//SI//NOFORN

UNITED STATES
FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE SURVEILLANCE COURT
WASHINGTON, D.C.

IN RE APPLICATION OF THE
FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION
FOR AN ORDER REQUIRING THE
PRODUCTION OF TANGIBLE THINGS
FROM VERIZON BUSINESS NETWORK SERVICES,
INC. ON BEHALF OF MCI COMMUNICATION
SERVICES,

IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that no person shall disclose to any other person that the FBIor NSA has sought or obtained tangible things under this Order, other than


https://epic.org/privacy/nsa/Section-215-Order-to-Verizon.pdf

Government worse for loss of personal data. Those we are told about that is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UK_government_data_losses

But Conservative leader David Cameron said the government had "failed in its first duty to protect the public".

The Revenue and Customs data on the two missing discs includes names, dates of birth, bank and address details.
That said banks were monitoring all 7.25 million bank accounts whose details were on the discs, which contained the personal details of all child benefit recipients in the UK.

Mr Darling said anyone who lost money as a result of any misuse of the data would be covered for losses under the banking code.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7104945.stm

Most of the data was lost by government officials but councils, NHS trusts, banks, insurance companies and chain stores also mislaid or published personal information about staff or members of the public.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/1574687/Governments-record-year-of-data-loss.html

Petition

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/pardon-edward-snowden/Dp03vGYD

bb.

Offline danrok

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2856
  • Gender: Male
Re: Edward Snowden is he a hero or zero ?
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2013, 11:44:34 PM »
Our historic leaders were brave enough to provide exile to Charles II when he was prince, and in fear of his life.

What chance of any of our current leaders having the balls to give exile to Snowden in Jersey?

Have any of them even expressed their opinions on this?

Offline boatyboy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3467
Re: Edward Snowden is he a hero or zero ?
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2013, 03:11:53 PM »

American citizens thinking for themselves and not accepting Government spin. Now they are recording your Skype messages to the USA, is this your video business secrets, could they be sold on or used by the USA Government.?

Part of an article.


The extraordinary claim that China had drained the contents of Snowden's laptops first appeared in the New York Times in a June 24 article. The paper published the claim with no evidence and without any attribution to any identified sources.
As usual, the US government, its establishment press, and both political parties have been almost completely united in its views and objectives in this episode. The American people, however, seem to have reached a much different conclusion than the one prepared for and fed to them.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jul/10/snowden-denies-information-russia-china

How Microsoft handed the NSA access to encrypted messages

• Secret files show scale of Silicon Valley co-operation on Prism ?• Outlook.com encryption unlocked even before official launch?• Skype worked to enable Prism collection of video calls?• Company says it is legally compelled to comply

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/11/microsoft-nsa-collaboration-user-data

Please copy and forward the petition, based in the White House.


Petition

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/pardon-edward-snowden/Dp03vGYD

bb
« Last Edit: July 12, 2013, 03:13:46 PM by boatyboy »

Offline boatyboy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3467
Re: Edward Snowden is he a hero or zero ?
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2013, 02:22:49 PM »


An explanation of what the USA Government is able to read  on the internet.

The next question is, if they can who else can ?

Guardian.


"I, sitting at my desk," said Snowden, could "wiretap anyone, from you or your accountant, to a federal judge or even the president, if I had a personal email".

US officials vehemently denied this specific claim. Mike Rogers, the Republican chairman of the House intelligence committee, said of Snowden's assertion: "He's lying. It's impossible for him to do what he was saying he could do."

But training materials for XKeyscore detail how analysts can use it and other systems to mine enormous agency databases by filling in a simple on-screen form giving only a broad justification for the search.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/31/nsa-top-secret-program-online-data

bb

Offline boatyboy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3467
Re: Edward Snowden is he a hero or zero ?
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2013, 04:14:36 PM »


It appears that Edward Snowden has forced the UK Government to reveal a source of income that was “ kept  quiet .“  How do you hide £100 million income over three years ?

The US government has paid at least £100m to the UK spy agency GCHQ over the last three years to secure access to and influence over Britain's intelligence gathering programmes.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/aug/01/nsa-paid-gchq-spying-edward-snowden

bb

Offline Calimachon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1503
  • Gender: Female
  • http://www.amnesty.org.uk/
Re: Edward Snowden is he a hero or zero ?
« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2013, 07:38:07 PM »
Lots of 'top secret' stuff goes on between USA and Britain regarding GCHQ and the Ministry of Defence.  USA staff are often seconded to Britain and vice versa, we just  never usually hear about it unless you know someone who knows someone who can't keep secrets.

Cali
TOMORROW (Noun) = A mystical land where 99% of all human productivity, motivation an achievement is stored

Offline ageofaquarius

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 860
Re: Edward Snowden is he a hero or zero ?
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2013, 04:34:59 AM »
Now the boy Manning is up on similar charges for 'whistle blowing' about what can only be described as war crimes.  Innocent people were killed by the US for so called terrorism.  We all know it goes on but look the other way. Here comes a brave individual who is laying his life on the line to highlight the might of the US and their bully boy tactics.

The media will show him as a social misfit, well they would wouldn't they. Maybe his conscience got the better of him, he knew it was wrong what he saw so he whilstle blew.  Good luck to him, unfortunately he isn't in Russia

Offline man in the street

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1140
Re: Edward Snowden is he a hero or zero ?
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2013, 03:51:31 PM »
 i see the yanks are   getting out of  twenty of  their   embassies  this  week end .
  must be nice  to feel wanted in a  country.
 there  will always be  whistleblowers.
 thank god  for whistleblowers .