Author Topic: Jersey Telecomms ripping off customers ?  (Read 7671 times)

Offline Jerry Gosselin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 678
Re: Jersey Telecoms [still] ripping off customers
« Reply #30 on: June 22, 2016, 06:59:26 PM »
I can't see how the continuation of a state monopoly in telecommunications - even a benign, popular, pro-customer orientated service, which we don't have - could ever be justified now given the advances in technology coupled with the simultaneous clampdown in freedom of expression that we have seen in the past decade. Inevitably, people will just try to find alternative new technologies to enable them to avoid having to use the government monopoly (example from the past decade: using public wifi signals or mobile internet provided by Sure or Airtel in order to nullify the need to pay for an overpriced JT monopoly landline connection).

In the extreme east of the island, it is possible to accidentally hook on to a French mobile network. Because of this thing called excessive roaming charges, nobody would currently choose to do so, but if roaming charges eventually ceased to exist and if there was ever a situation in the future where Jersey's internet became so over-policed and over-surveilled in comparison to our near neighbours that islanders didn't feel safe to express themselves freely online, then might we see local dissidents quietly heading up to the cliffs above Rozel every night with their smartphones at the ready...?  :-\

There is a consistent trend towards the ever-greater filtering, censorship and surveillance of all electronic communications. That is controversial enough when governments are trying to force reluctant private internet service providers to do these things on behalf of the state, but could you imagine if our only way of communicating electronically to the outside world in 2016 was via the States of Jersey owned Jersey Telecoms? OK, they are probably going to filter, censor and monitor our internet come what may but I would still rather have a choice of providers nonetheless because that will at least help to keep the tariffs more reasonable.

Re Shortport's enquiry: I can't give a comprehensive answer as there are pros and cons with all 3 networks, but it is worth pointing out that Airtel still charges its PAYG customers just 7p per minute to phone all local mobile numbers, which does not include any additional offers of free data and free calls to other Airtel numbers when you top up with at least £10. See link 1 below:

Link 1:

http://airtel-vodafone.com/discover/products-and-services/pay-as-you-go-plans

By comparison, both Sure (link 2) and JT (link 3) currently charge 25p per minute to phone all local mobiles at the standard tariff (i.e. when your brief period of free calls after topping up has expired).

Link 2:

https://web.sure.com/jersey/mobile/call-rates

Link 3:

http://www.jtglobal.com/Jersey/Personal/Mobile/Handsets-and-tariffs/Pay-as-you-go/Pay-as-you-go-tariffs/

I think that 25p per minute (excluding GST) to phone another Jersey mobile number when Sure only charges its PAYG customers 10p per minute to phone Polish or Portuguese mobiles is totally unjustified. Why hasn't the regulator acted before now? Even if they could somehow prove that 25p per minute is justified and reasonable for Jersey people located within the island to phone other Jersey people who are also located within the island then that raises the obvious follow-on question of why these customers appear to be subsidizing Polish and Portuguese nationals in the island to phone home at an ultra-low tariff that must surely be below the wholesale cost to the network? It cannot be cheaper for Sure in Jersey to connect its customers to any Polish or Portuguese mobile network than it is to connect to its own network! It is also unfair on other ethnic groups who have settled in Jersey (e.g. Romanians) but not in quite as large numbers as the Polish or Portuguese (I suppose Sure's response will eventually be to lower calls to Romania too, which hardly deals with the discrimination issue).

I should also just add that Airtel also provides very cheap tariffs to Portugal and Poland (as well as other countries like Romania, Hungary, Latvia, Bangladesh and Ireland)  but the discrimination issue is far less of a problem because the price is the same (7p per minute) whether you phone a Jersey, Polish or Portuguese mobile (including Romania, Hungary etc.) and it is only 2p per minute cheaper to phone a Polish or Portuguese landline (including Romania, Hungary etc.) than it is to phone a Jersey one. Therefore Jersey residents using Airtel are not paying more than double the price of Polish and Portuguese nationals, as is the case on the Sure network.

Would anyone care to hypothesize whether positive discrimination in favour of certain select ethnic groups in respect of mobile phone tariffs might possibly be unlawful? These mobile companies are not public authorities so they are not directly bound by the European Convention on Human Rights, but the domestic legislation that they must comply with should be compliant with the Convention, as should the actions (or non-actions) of the local Regulator, I presume.  :-\
 
« Last Edit: June 22, 2016, 07:21:03 PM by Jerry Gosselin »

Offline Jerry Gosselin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 678
Re: Sure Mobile still ripping off PAYG customers
« Reply #31 on: April 10, 2017, 08:38:23 AM »
I notice that Sure Mobile are now charging their PAYG customers (if they have any left) 35p per minute plus 12p connection charge to phone mobiles or landlines in Jersey, Guernsey, Isle of Man, UK and Republic of Ireland when the calls are made outside of the PAYG 'rewards' period (e.g. more than 7 days after you last topped up your credit by £5).

So that's an inflation-busting 10p per minute rise in local calls since I complained about this only last June in my previous post, directly above, when Sure were charging 25p per minute. The price of sending a short 160 character text has also gone up to 15p. In an earlier post written in October 2014, I noted that JT and Sure were both charging 20p per minute for calls to local mobiles and 10p for texts.

Furthermore, Sure were charging 10p per minute last June to call Portuguese or Polish mobiles or landlines. Today that has dropped significantly to just 6p per minute plus 12p connection charge (also including Latvia because there are a lot of Latvians in Guernsey).

https://web.sure.com/jersey/mobile/call-rates

It seems pretty clear that PAYG customers with family ties in Jersey, the UK and Ireland are having to pay disproportionately high call rates to these locations in order to cross-subsidise other local customers with links to Portugal, Poland and Latvia, who are paying laughably cheap rates per minute by comparison.

It would be very interesting to know what the real wholesale cost is to Sure when customers phone these various countries. On the face of it, 6p per minute to phone Poland etc. looks less than the true wholesale cost and 35p per minute to phone another Jersey Sure mobile looks like blatant over charging to me.

Are Sure breaking anti-discrimination legislation or maybe EU or ECHR law? More to the point, is the Competition regulator willing and able to start looking into this?
« Last Edit: April 10, 2017, 08:43:18 AM by Jerry Gosselin »

Offline boatyboy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3416
Re: Jersey Telecomms ripping off customers ?
« Reply #32 on: April 10, 2017, 03:32:18 PM »

Gave up sure PAYG  ages ago. They rip off locals and it is the roaming charges which are incredibly high which caused me to change. One expects to pay a little more but they take the p**s.

bb

Offline Jerry Gosselin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 678
Re: And Jersey Telecoms doing the same!
« Reply #33 on: April 10, 2017, 09:24:06 PM »
Just to be fair, I have also checked what JT are charging their PAYG customers outside of the rewards period. As expected, they are continuing their policy of charging whatever Sure charges. So it is 35 per minute for calls to all local and UK mobiles and landlines and an even higher 20p per text. Both Sure and JT charge their PAYG customers 10p per Mb for mobile data.

By comparison, Airtel is still charging its PAYG customers only 7p per minute for calls to all Jersey mobiles and landlines, 7p for texts and only 4p per Mb (+ 1p session charge) for mobile data.

My suspicion is that JT and Sure are jointly trying to kill off Pay As You Go completely and force all their customers onto pay monthly tariffs and I would imagine they must be succeeding. What will happen when the majority of their PAYG customers are safely on Direct Debit? Well they never do anything in the interests of their customers so the suspicion is that they'll then jointly start to increase the charges for their pay monthly clients too. At the moment some of the pay monthly options look quite attractive presuming there aren't hidden catches, i.e. £17.50 per month for 100Gb mobile internet on Sure, but if you only want to pay £10 per month then the tariff choice is a lot less generous, providing only 5Gb of monthly data on Sure. So there are huge variations in the price per Gb of data usage, which is hard to justify.

My real fear is if Airtel merges with either JT (as nearly happened last year) or Sure. For me, that would be the real game changer in terms of competition and choice for the consumer. On the other hand, it doesn't really matter if JT and Sure were to merge because they are effectively acting like a single monopoly already so I don't think the customers would notice too much difference.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2017, 09:25:59 PM by Jerry Gosselin »