Author Topic: 0-10 and 20 means 20. The New System is failing badly  (Read 6116 times)

Offline stoofa

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Re: 0-10 and 20 means 20. The New System is failing badly
« Reply #15 on: July 04, 2009, 04:47:28 AM »
Been away for a while...

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In other words just like the other non manufacturing or extraction i.e service industry based economies do?

Theres a bit of a difference there. The service based economies of the Western world have grown via economic imbalances globally (ie primary and secondary industries going to cheaper locations) rather than Jerseys finance industry, which is purely a quirk of history and international tax law. The decline in major service economies will likely be over decades as the world balances out and those enormous budget defecits kick in. The decline in Jersey's finance industry would be somewhat more rapid if we were to simply change a few bits of legislation.

Ultimately if we tax all corporates here at 20%, most of finance leaves. If we want to keep that industry here and you are willing to change your tax laws to that effect, we have to accept there may be a downside as well.


Offline Norman_Point

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Re: 0-10 and 20 means 20. The New System is failing badly
« Reply #16 on: July 04, 2009, 02:48:43 PM »
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House prices do not appear to be going down.

Putative vendors may ask what they wish; actual sales depend on what buyers are prepared to pay.

In the current economic situation it's a buyers' market.

Or put another way, current house prices are yet another sign of people's greed.

debumblebee

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Re: 0-10 and 20 means 20. The New System is failing badly
« Reply #17 on: July 04, 2009, 03:47:19 PM »
In the current economic situation it's a buyers' market.

People are still being refused mortgages though because a deposit of between 10%-15% is now being demanded and anything over 5x is being frowned at.  Because many people bought at + 7x they are going to be the ones that will have difficulty finding a buyer without this facility of borrowing.

I sort of think that anything that brings down ridiculously high house prices is a good thing anyhow, but not a buyers market, and I only say that from the current lending situation and not forgetting unemployment.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2009, 03:49:42 PM by debumblebee »

Offline stoofa

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Re: 0-10 and 20 means 20. The New System is failing badly
« Reply #18 on: July 04, 2009, 06:00:33 PM »
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Putative vendors may ask what they wish; actual sales depend on what buyers are prepared to pay.

Yup.

I know several people who are wanting to sell houses only to find they cannot get the price they want, however they are not in a position where they must move and most are unable to accept the fact that they may lose money on a house. As such, they stay put.

The obvious thing to look at is sales volumes. They are well documented as having fallen through the floor in the UK - I couldn't turn up any data for Jersey, but I suspect they will have gone down substantially.

When people get to the position where they are forced to sell/repossessed it will very much be a buyers market. Until more people start losing jobs, I don't think that will be the case.

rogueelement

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Re: 0-10 and 20 means 20. The New System is failing badly
« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2010, 05:21:28 PM »
All this talk of being broke
is getting me down my lord
last fag in the pack and the lighter is damp
It,s no time to be a tramp

But oooooooooh owow
When Terry calls
he,s got my balls,and the last dime i had
he,s got it wooooooong so wrong
no wonder i,m feeling sad

All this talk of 20 means 20
and giving money to the UK
it does,nt make no sense
to see my pence
just being frittered away.

But ooooh woe woe
now ozoufs cold
does,nt have no soul
their schemes are deeeeeeeead
i just wish they had brains in their heads

But ohh when parade gardens call
i,m gonna fall
onto my bench with my friends
and get right out of my head

all this talk of zero-ten
bet they wish they had never heard
a bloody word from Tel
sending us to hell
with a tax regime so absurd

with a tax regime so absurd ,,,with a tax regime so absurd ,(fade into oblivion)

apologies to the verve


Offline Dylan

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Re: 0-10 and 20 means 20. The New System is failing badly
« Reply #20 on: June 23, 2010, 11:54:33 PM »
!dereggub si draobyek ym kniht I

Offline man in the street

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Re: 0-10 and 20 means 20. The New System is failing badly
« Reply #21 on: June 24, 2010, 12:58:14 AM »
apart from the corporate side of things, the crap itis system  is rubbish, apart from still being a year behind, how do you pay the arrears, if you are not working , have no rainy day fund( willbe needed for day to day living ).
 p.a.y.e. was the way to go, i my eye, guernsey got it right , as it is transiant workers can start low , end up making a mint  and go, never to return.
i want to bring  my income tax up to date, i.e.  real time and stop work owing nothing.
the system does not see peaks and troughs in my income , and i find the way of percentage calculation as clear as mud.

Offline tonytheprof

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Re: 0-10 and 20 means 20. The New System is failing badly
« Reply #22 on: September 28, 2010, 04:53:42 AM »
I've been think about revenue ideas, and a lot of tax was lost with zero / ten and the removal of the exempt tax fee on the companies administered by the finance sector. Guernsey and the Isle of Man - the other players - must have had a similar problem in cutting that out and losing revenue, so any solution would have to involve three players, but there is everything to play for.

And my suggestion is this - reinstate the £500 tax as tax payable by all companies at 20% on the first £2,500 of their income  (=£500) - if it's less, they only pay on the 20%. The remainder to be taxed according to the zero/ten rules. This would need to be done over all the 3 players, or it would be anti-competitive, but they'd all have gains from it, and no appreciable losses.

For companies administered by trust companies etc, it would be a reversion to the single lump payment that they used to pay (and were happy to pay). For local businesses with local shareholders, a chunk would be company tax before the distribution in dividends or deemed dividends to shareholders. For local businesses with UK shareholders, at least they would be paying something of their trading profits locally.

There would be more company tax paid -effectively, except for non-trading companies, a £500 tax on all companies - zero/ten would be intact (warding off the EU) - and there would be less of a black hole.

Any comments?

rogueelement

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Re: 0-10 and 20 means 20. The New System is failing badly
« Reply #23 on: September 30, 2010, 01:25:45 AM »
Tony the Prof
You are missing the point entirely , the £500 for exempt companies is entirely irrelevant .
We are losing the money as follows :-
EVERY SINGLE NON JERSEY OWNED COMPANY BUT TRADING IN THE ISLAND ,=OWNED BY SOMEONE IN THE UK OR TIERRA DEL FUEGO OR WHEREVER IS NOT PAYING TAX ON PROFITS ACHIEVED ON THE ISLAND .
That means Marks and Sparks , Boots, Burtons , anything else owned outside of Jersey but making good profits within Jersey .
The tragic matter is that these companies are not saving tax , since such profits are now taxed in the UK or wherever instead of Jersey ,,,,,,,,,,,,Do you get the point????????
We have handed the UK £100 million and achieved sweet FA since they still think the Island is crap.
That is the blackhole , that is how it came about and if you do not understand that basic premise , I suggest you talk to someone who knows what they are talking about before making further inane comment.