Author Topic: £60 million , potential black hole in the Jersey economy  (Read 4985 times)

rogueelement

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Shall we start with the £3million , according to the States potentially £9 million, and according to my and any other prudent accounting method potentially £12-15 million?
Let us continue with £12 million spent on the HDLG coconut affair.
Add on the £5 million "discovered" lack of spending .........Now spent.
Well there is approx. £30 million.

Now let us consider IT , A previous poster has commented that I am obviously one of those moaners and whingers about IT costs.
Who provides the vast amount of IT services to the States? Is it a company that is owned by the Guiton Group , or perhaps formerly owned by the Guiton Group? What is the annual amount payed to this company? Is it a fact the States are so deeply entrenched with one company thet cannot walk away?
How has  this company served the taxpayer by integration of technology? Most IT companies I know and have dealt with will let you know the sort of savings down the line by virtue of their excellent services. What savings have been achieved?
I would like someone like Sarah Ferguson (only because she is the only member with the guts to come on here ) have a really good look at the costs of these sort of companies and where savings could be made . The Itex walk is a wonderful contribution to local charities , Can we have some accountability for this stroll along the garden path?

Offline Mark Forskitt

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Re: £60 million , potential black hole in the Jersey economy
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2009, 06:54:17 PM »
I understand the last large contract for redeveloping and somewhat unifying  various States websites went to a locally led consortium that didn't include any part of Guiton group. I don't know about hardware support etc.

Offline moot

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Re: £60 million , potential black hole in the Jersey economy
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2009, 08:06:17 PM »
Shall we start with the £3million , according to the States potentially £9 million, and according to my and any other prudent accounting method potentially £12-15 million?
Let us continue with £12 million spent on the HDLG coconut affair.
Add on the £5 million "discovered" lack of spending .........Now spent.
Well there is approx. £30 million.
Now let us consider IT , A previous poster has commented that I am obviously one of those moaners and whingers about IT costs.
Who provides the vast amount of IT services to the States? Is it a company that is owned by the Guiton Group , or perhaps formerly owned by the Guiton Group? What is the annual amount payed to this company? Is it a fact the States are so deeply entrenched with one company thet cannot walk away?
How has  this company served the taxpayer by integration of technology? Most IT companies I know and have dealt with will let you know the sort of savings down the line by virtue of their excellent services. What savings have been achieved?
I would like someone like Sarah Ferguson (only because she is the only member with the guts to come on here ) have a really good look at the costs of these sort of companies and where savings could be made . The Itex walk is a wonderful contribution to local charities , Can we have some accountability for this stroll along the garden path?


Talking about States spending on IT below is a JEP article dated 28 April 2001 and I wonder how far we are with this project now ?

TECHNOLOGY : Project falls behind schedule due to staff shortages£1,000 a day, That’s what consultants are earning to install a £6m system at the States Treasury
CONSULTANTS from the UK are understood to be earning more than £1000 per day to install a state-of-the-art £6m computer system for the States Treasury.
The ambitious project to create a single IT network encompassing 26 States departments is behind schedule after suffering staffing problems.
Costs have risen because the Treasury has been unable to recruit qualified IT staff on the rates of pay offered in the public sector.

Package

Additionally, the tight labour market had created a considerable skills shortage in the island, said States Treasurer Ian Black. As a result more money has been spent bringing in UK consultants.
Mr Black said that the installation, which was started 18 months ago, would not run over budget, although he admitted that the scale of the project had been reduced and there were fewer add-on features to the main package. The completion date has also been put back by at least six months.
The network, which will replace 140 individual financial systems in the States sector, must be up and running within two years to replace the Treasury’s current Millennium network. It would provide an advanced system of financial management across all functions of government – budgeting, accounting and procurement – and Jersey would be a world leader, said Mr Black.
But he admitted that there had initially been doubts about whether the States had bought the right package.
An independent review had been carried out, concluding that the system would more its way in the future. ‘The scale of the system is massive’, said Mr Black.
‘We are effectively computerising every financial process in Jersey government’

Advanced.

Currently 12 people are assigned to the project to install the J D Edwards system, one of the most technologically advanced packages available on the market. It required highly specialised IT skills, and some of the workforce are thought to be earning at least £1000 per day.
Mr Black felt that it would be inappropriate to give  precise details of the rates which are being paid to the consultants, but he indicated that the suggested figure of £40.000 per week was the ‘sort of cost’ that would have to be paid if a full complement of staff were working on the project.

Offline White Knight

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Re: £60 million , potential black hole in the Jersey economy
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2009, 08:32:43 PM »
Well who will take bets on GST going up before the 3 year agreement.

mpwpj

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Re: £60 million , potential black hole in the Jersey economy
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2009, 12:16:36 AM »
I understand the last large contract for redeveloping and somewhat unifying  various States websites went to a locally led consortium that didn't include any part of Guiton group. I don't know about hardware support etc.
Didn't the contract go to a company called C5, based in Anley Street?  Of course the staff member, or one of them sits at a desk in CLeM House that was vacated by the former civil servant who ran the States website, and who was let go when they outsourced his job.

I wonder how he finds it sat there in the office with all those staff whose colleague they saw let go... probably quite comfortable seeing as it's the same bloke, now a consultant rather than staff, and possibly on a better salary!

Offline Mark Forskitt

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Re: £60 million , potential black hole in the Jersey economy
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2009, 06:14:39 AM »

Talking about States spending on IT below is a JEP article dated 28 April 2001 and I wonder how far we are with this project now ?

TECHNOLOGY : Project falls behind schedule due to staff shortages£1,000 a day, That’s what consultants are earning to install a £6m system at the States Treasury
CONSULTANTS from the UK are understood to be earning more than £1000 per day to install a state-of-the-art £6m computer system for the States Treasury.
The ambitious project to create a single IT network encompassing 26 States departments is behind schedule after suffering staffing problems.
Costs have risen because the Treasury has been unable to recruit qualified IT staff on the rates of pay offered in the public sector.

Package

Additionally, the tight labour market had created a considerable skills shortage in the island, said States Treasurer Ian Black. As a result more money has been spent bringing in UK consultants.
Mr Black said that the installation, which was started 18 months ago, would not run over budget, although he admitted that the scale of the project had been reduced and there were fewer add-on features to the main package. The completion date has also been put back by at least six months.
The network, which will replace 140 individual financial systems in the States sector, must be up and running within two years to replace the Treasury’s current Millennium network. It would provide an advanced system of financial management across all functions of government – budgeting, accounting and procurement – and Jersey would be a world leader, said Mr Black.
But he admitted that there had initially been doubts about whether the States had bought the right package.
An independent review had been carried out, concluding that the system would more its way in the future. ‘The scale of the system is massive’, said Mr Black.
‘We are effectively computerising every financial process in Jersey government’

Advanced.

Currently 12 people are assigned to the project to install the J D Edwards system, one of the most technologically advanced packages available on the market. It required highly specialised IT skills, and some of the workforce are thought to be earning at least £1000 per day.
Mr Black felt that it would be inappropriate to give  precise details of the rates which are being paid to the consultants, but he indicated that the suggested figure of £40.000 per week was the ‘sort of cost’ that would have to be paid if a full complement of staff were working on the project.


Someone was being very, er, economical there with something or another.  At that time I had been working on JDE and SAP integrations as a contractor to KPMG and PWC.  I was on much less than £1000 per day, but the big consultancy firms were charging £1200+. It was not price that was the issue. As far as I could find out they never actually looked for local people with JDE skills, assuming that since there were no other JDE installations locally there would be none.

rogueelement

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Re: £60 million , potential black hole in the Jersey economy
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2009, 09:49:14 AM »
What I find even more interesting than the fact that it was perceived that there was no knowledge available in Jersey to complete the task , is that such a huge amount of money should be spent on a Treasury which is obviously woefully short on the knowledge required to run a Treasury! The latest fiasco is not just ridiculous, it makes this Island look like it is being run by idiots ,,er,,, yes , quite.
Surely we can expect an announcement shortly that someone with the background and ability in forex transaction has been brought in ,(please, not another outside consultant, we have loads of good people working in the banks who could fill this role) to oversee the banking side of the Treasury Role. It is not just about collecting money from taxpayers and passing it on to any travelling circus, sorry I mean States Dept. which happens to stick the begging bowl out. We have an audit commissioner, what does he do for a living apart from grow a lovely beard?

rogueelement

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Re: £60 million , potential black hole in the Jersey economy
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2009, 11:52:24 AM »
I suppose that the news of sleaze withing the UK house is occupying our minds at present , It is comforting to know that the entire sleazy requests for payments by hundreds of MP,s throughout the political spectrum for the whole year of 2008 equates to approximately the same amount as our Govt. lost by not hedging its Euro requirements.The public are demanding that heads role in the UK , we are demanding a definitive answer to the cost of our Treasury Ministers incompetence , I doubt anyone will be satisfied with the answers or results.
Now instead of finding ever more devious ways to be an annoying little ****s why do not Southern and co . do something useful like find out who was to blame for this fiasco? 
We actually pay the wages for these people , could they not try to do something intelligent for once?

mpwpj

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Re: £60 million , potential black hole in the Jersey economy
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2009, 12:50:01 PM »
...we are demanding a definitive answer to the cost...
Then we need to wait until the costs are known.  I doubt(hope) that on realising the failure to buy Euros last year, when the exchange rate was favourable, that the Treasury rushed out to buy Euros at the least favourable exchange rate.  Already the pound has recovered some of it's value, and is likely that will improve over the course of the contract.

Therefore until the Euro invoices are paid the cost can not be known, indeed if the pound were to rally extraordinarily we could actually see a saving due to this error, in theory, could we not?

I think it's a safe assumption that there will be a loss, but nobody knows for sure how much yet.

rogueelement

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Re: £60 million , potential black hole in the Jersey economy
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2009, 01:02:57 PM »
In theory we could end up with 5 Euros to the pound providing savings of £80 million, in reality , prudent business practice dictates that you deal with known costs on a day to day basis ,that when reviewing tenders quotations , you take into account the current exchange rate and you then ensure that you tie up sufficient capital to deliver the exchange rate fixed at that point. It would be interesting to know if UK suppliers of the product were turned down on the basis of price , which has subsequently , from our point of view increased by 10% minimum.
It is not up to any well run business or Government to indulge in Forex speculation. I am sure that if the Euro continued to fall below the 1.23/£1 someone will hail the wisdom of our Treasury Mandarins who , have already admitted that they do not have the expertise or facilities or staff capable of doing something so simple as fixing a foreign exchange rate.
It would be great if the Euro falls to or below its previous level but then again , I do not put a sock at the end of my bed waiting for Father Xmas to fill it up.
Wish on one hand and crap on the other, see which one fills up first.
 

mpwpj

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Re: £60 million , potential black hole in the Jersey economy
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2009, 01:18:48 PM »
...It is not up to any well run business or Government to indulge in Forex speculation...
In the early 90s when VW purchased parts from various European(and further afield) suppliers, their Forex deals made the group more money than actually building and selling cars.

...I am sure that if the Euro continued to fall below the 1.23/£1 someone will hail the wisdom of our Treasury Mandarins...
I agree I'm sure there are some that would, but they'd be wrong of course.  Even if the unlikely happened it wouldn't be wisdom, but luck, as you so eloquently implied.

rogueelement

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Re: £60 million , potential black hole in the Jersey economy
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2009, 04:04:28 PM »
In the early 90s when VW purchased parts from various European(and further afield) suppliers, their Forex deals made the group more money than actually building and selling cars.

I did not say there is no room for qualified personnel to idulge in some arbitrage, but you will probably realise as well as I do , That British farmers are going to benefit from the sterling collapse , simply by being paid in Euros.=a 15% bonus currently.
I would suggest , that the VW profits were more to do with a strong German economy , and a serendipitous downturn overseas against the foreign currencies they were buying against. Had the opposite markets applied VW would have made equally bad losses, I am sure bonuses all around and a big Phew , lucky or what?

mpwpj

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Re: £60 million , potential black hole in the Jersey economy
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2009, 04:13:22 PM »
...I did not say there is no room for qualified personnel to idulge in some arbitrage...
I wasn't questioning you original assertion at all, it's just that the article I read that VW story in amazed me at the time, has stuck in my mind since, and I thought it was intersting enough to mention on such a slow news day :)

Offline boatyboy

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Re: £60 million , potential black hole in the Jersey economy
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2012, 12:08:14 AM »

Facts and figures presented in the link below (which are self explanatory) and again asks the question is Senator Ozouf et al, protecting  their rich friends in Jersey from paying their fair share of tax, while at the same time, hitting the low and middle earners hard to prop up Jerseys tax and spend Government.

On the subject of spending we know a certain section of society loves a bit of pomp and ceremony so they can feel all important and dress up in frocks and feathers and make speeches but who pay's ?


How much in financially terms, have the States allocated for the Queens celebration?  Or is that another secret?

Where are the MSM in these times of high unemployment and hard economic times, when its in the public interest  to ask this basic type of question.

Quote

In the mean time just to give you further food for thought. Here’s the latest very interesting statistics for how much most of our multi-millionaire  1 (1) K residents REALLY pay. Read the spin that they ALL pay at least £125.000? Think again…


http://thebaldtruthjersey.blogspot.com/

BB

Offline danrok

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Re: £60 million , potential black hole in the Jersey economy
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2012, 03:34:36 AM »
£1000 per day would be how much they are being charged out at, the person doing the work would not be paid £1000 per day.