Author Topic: A political subject for a change (as it is back in the news)- Budget 2010  (Read 10307 times)

Offline Dylan

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Re: A political subject for a change (as it is back in the news)- Budget 2010
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2010, 07:50:19 PM »
There must be better then Ozouf. Surely? Ian Le Marquand might be although the way he's sitting on his hands with the Wiltshire report does make me wonder.

I was out for dinner with a Treasury employee last week. He told me that Philip has been saying that he's a qualified mathematician. Surely that cant be right? His website says this; "I was educated at Victoria College and graduated from the European Business School in London, Frankfurt and Paris. Before returning to Jersey, I worked for one of the world’s largest companies in numerous places around the world."

Do you think once he graduated he worked in McDonalds? Maybe on the tills? His personal warmth and charisma combined with his undoubted calculus skills would make him a 5 star employee in my books!

Don't count on it!
!dereggub si draobyek ym kniht I

Offline Chevalier Blanc

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Re: A political subject for a change (as it is back in the news)- Budget 2010
« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2010, 11:04:19 PM »
I always wonder about people who have had numerous jobs in a very short working life. Were they shown the door? Did they bale out before being shown the door? Were they on a probation period and not come up to the job? Many question but it seems that the States job has been the longest one and only fools have kept him in that job.
Maybe it is the civil servant that makes all the rules etc and Phil just repeats what he has been told to say. Accountancy does not come with a very good record seeing that the last Treasury Minister in the job for 6 years? is now the CM and the mess we are in must be down to him, so being good at numerous does seem not to be required for the Treasury Minister.

ole razzy

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Re: A political subject for a change (as it is back in the news)- Budget 2010
« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2010, 12:01:55 AM »
I always wonder about people who have had numerous jobs in a very short working life. Were they shown the door? Did they bale out before being shown the door? Were they on a probation period and not come up to the job? Many question but it seems that the States job has been the longest one and only fools have kept him in that job.

Chev I dont think the Treasury Minister has had numerous jobs. Other then being a local politician for a while he's only had one other job. But it was for a very very large international company (say like MacDonald's) and it meant that he was able to work in lots of different countries. Which might make him think that he'd be exactly the type of person to represent Jersey on the world stage. Say at somewhere like Davos. If that's indeed correct then it would indicate that as Treasury minister might be re-framing his political ambitions for the Chief Minister's role and instead has his eye on the soon to be created Foriegn Minister role that Frank Walker keeps banging on about. You know how Philip likes a trip away? 

Offline Dylan

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Re: A political subject for a change (as it is back in the news)- Budget 2010
« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2010, 12:11:36 AM »
Chev I dont think the Treasury Minister has had numerous jobs. Other then being a local politician for a while he's only had one other job. But it was for a very very large international company (say like MacDonald's) and it meant that he was able to work in lots of different countries. Which might make him think that he'd be exactly the type of person to represent Jersey on the world stage. Say at somewhere like Davos. If that's indeed correct then it would indicate that as Treasury minister might be re-framing his political ambitions for the Chief Minister's role and instead has his eye on the soon to be created Foriegn Minister role that Frank Walker keeps banging on about. You know how Philip likes a trip away? 
You mean to Thailand?
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rogueelement

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Re: A political subject for a change (as it is back in the news)- Budget 2010
« Reply #19 on: February 09, 2010, 12:13:42 AM »
As I have stated Ad nauseum ( for the really thick amongst you ) that means until I am sick of saying the same thing , there are some simple solutions.
1. Tax  local resident accounts' interest directly at the banks , that way it does not have to be declared, it does not have to be disputed and the banks do it anyway for other governments !The simple advantage being that you can reduce the size of the tax declaration to every individual, reduce the size therefore of the tax office and have the added bonus that the tax is paid quarterly in real time ,not 18 months down the line.
2.Tax all non resident deposits in Jersey at some rate on interest earned ! There are hundreds of  billions sitting here untaxed and the choices those people have to remove that money to other jurisdictions are becoming increasingly rare  so a 2 % witholding tax on non resident deposit interest would produce hundreds of millions of pounds.
Downside , at current rates of interest these billions would not produce a lot of money. Those in charge of this money can and will move it to a location offering better tax deals . However , since the world is becoming increasingly tax transparent , the ability to absorb such funds will become ever more tiresome .
Upside , Interest rates are going to rise by a huge degree in the next 5 years. Those Banks and funds that do stay on , however many billions that might be , would actually be making a contribution ,instead of the zero contribution they make on funds or cash now.
Time to get real !
If we fail to get real we will be sidetracked , funds , money will move to .....say Singapore, Hong Kong , wherever , that offers the best tax deal , but increasingly we are looking at viability of such offshore, no tax, jurisdictions .If Jersey can operate on a level playing field with those types of jurisdictions , then we have a bright future , if not , we are in the words of the prophet "buggered"
So instead of pressing an increasingly large tax bill on the Jersey Resident , without making the remotest effort to trim the fat bastard waistline of the States Of Jersey , is there not a single person in that laughingly called "House" who has the balls to say "enough is enough"? When we are looking at SOJ expenditure close to 100%  of GDP ,is there not a single person who can work out some basic facts?
This Island is sick of it... , sick of posturing ,puerile, self serving politicians who basically only give a sh1t about their wage packets.... and they along with the 7000 useless muppets who are the civil service need to be disenfranchised .
I suppose that a General Election is too simple , making the buggers apologise for being so inept and useless might help , but (Sorry Vlad) smacking those smug grins off their faces would certainly be therapeautic!
How do we even begin to achieve any sort of change on this Island without a Revolution? It is just so entrenched up its own backside that only a firm pull on the ears would remove it from it,s own fundemental orifice.

Yup ,,, correct ,, have had a pint or two!

Offline rico sorda

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I found this on hansard.

2.3.1  Senator S.C. Ferguson:
Will the Minister tell the House what the most recent estimates indicate that the structural deficit will be for 2012 and 2013?

Senator P.F.C. Ozouf:
The most recent estimate at the mid point is £45 million, but I need to be completely clear with Members that that does not include the requirement to find some new money for some areas of States spending which is not already factored-in.  In addition, I need to find a realistic solution to contingencies.  Every year there is unexpected expenditure and I need to build in a realistic £12 million or £14 million contingency every year and to find the necessary growth for some areas such as Health and Social Services.  So the total figure that we are looking at in terms of a structural deficit is likely to be in the region of £70 million or £80 million.

Is the deficit growing even faster than at first thought.

GST when does that go up

Sparty Help

rs
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rogueelement

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I cannot help , it will fall when it falls then there will be much wailing and gnashing of teeth. Total failure and collapse will only be prevented by appeal to the UK (Or any other mug) to save us from our swirling into our own blackhole of stupidity. I,m sure sufficient Civil servants will be left to advise us that no ,,,"no money= no pension"   "do you have relatives in the UK who could look after you?"
I,m ****ed , your rosed , we are all rosy   (just seeing if the censor can translate that one)

Offline rico sorda

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I have relatives all over the place, phew well sorted, but this is my home sparty and they have ****ed it all up. But hang on what's that coming over the hill is it a ? oh its phil

Senator P.F.C. Ozouf (The Minister for Treasury and Resources):
As Members will be aware, the Council of Ministers met last Thursday to review spending forecasts and to consider how to deal with projected deficits.  The Council is determined to control States spending to guard against future unsustainable structural deficits.  There will be major challenges that will require first, a review of those services which are essential or highly desirable; secondly, a determination to deliver services efficiently across the States of Jersey; thirdly, consideration of a wider implementation of user pays principles; and finally, tax changes, including a review of Zero/Ten.  The comprehensive spending review is designed to deliver the first 3 elements of this and the fiscal strategy designed to deliver the fourth.  The C.S.R. (comprehensive spending review) process has now started, working with States departments it will analyse all areas of States spending in order to identify the possibility of saving £50 million over the next 3 years, to understand the implications of proposed savings and to target improvements.  There will be 6 in-depth reviews looking at terms and conditions of employment, court and case costs, Health and Social Services, Education, Social Security and Home Affairs.  All States departments will be asked to identify and find savings.  The final decision on the balance between savings and taxes will of course be a political choice and it will be taken in this Assembly as part of the Budget and Business Plan debates.  The next Members will hear from me is shortly in terms of inviting Members to a workshop where I am hopeful to discuss these matters in a wider forum.

ALL IS OK CANCEL THE TICKET

RS
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Offline moot

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I have relatives all over the place, phew well sorted, but this is my home sparty and they have Roseed it all up. But hang on what's that coming over the hill is it a ? oh its phil

Senator P.F.C. Ozouf (The Minister for Treasury and Resources):
As Members will be aware, the Council of Ministers met last Thursday to review spending forecasts and to consider how to deal with projected deficits.  The Council is determined to control States spending to guard against future unsustainable structural deficits.  There will be major challenges that will require first, a review of those services which are essential or highly desirable; secondly, a determination to deliver services efficiently across the States of Jersey; thirdly, consideration of a wider implementation of user pays principles; and finally, tax changes, including a review of Zero/Ten.  The comprehensive spending review is designed to deliver the first 3 elements of this and the fiscal strategy designed to deliver the fourth.  The C.S.R. (comprehensive spending review) process has now started, working with States departments it will analyse all areas of States spending in order to identify the possibility of saving £50 million over the next 3 years, to understand the implications of proposed savings and to target improvements.  There will be 6 in-depth reviews looking at terms and conditions of employment, court and case costs, Health and Social Services, Education, Social Security and Home Affairs.  All States departments will be asked to identify and find savings.  The final decision on the balance between savings and taxes will of course be a political choice and it will be taken in this Assembly as part of the Budget and Business Plan debates.  The next Members will hear from me is shortly in terms of inviting Members to a workshop where I am hopeful to discuss these matters in a wider forum.
RS

By the time they have gone through all this lot there will be no money to save. Whaffle Whaffle Spin and bullshit. This man is a danger to all of us !

Offline rico sorda

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Its all under control moot lol

Senator P.F.C. Ozouf:
We need to be realistic.  I was reviewing the Treasury on Friday and looking at the growth in States expenditure over the last 5 years.  Indeed, I think that we have added an additional £70 million worth of new money in terms of Social Security, Health and departments such as the Prison.  At the same time, we have delivered efficiency savings across the organisation and yes there is some debate with the P.A.C. (Public Accounts Committee) of exactly what was determined politically, but certainly we have delivered £20 million or £30 million worth of savings.  I believe that all organisations can deliver their services more efficiently and more effectively.  But it does not need to be done sensitively and I hope that Members would agree that every political problem does simply not require the writing of a cheque from taxpayers.  We need to be longsighted in terms of the way we structure services, and put the right checks and balances in place.

rs
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Offline Deputy Dawg

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So instead of pressing an increasingly large tax bill on the Jersey Resident , without making the remotest effort to trim the fat bastard waistline of the States Of Jersey , is there not a single person in that laughingly called "House" who has the balls to say "enough is enough"? When we are looking at SOJ expenditure close to 100%  of GDP ,is there not a single person who can work out some basic facts?
This Island is sick of it... , sick of posturing ,puerile, self serving politicians who basically only give a sh1t about their wage packets.... and they along with the 7000 useless muppets who are the civil service need to be disenfranchised .

Nail and Head - hit. The issue is that the SOJ expenditure is so high. A co-worker of mine, probably a boat owner though I have never asked, has a desk diary from harbours. When I saw it, it was February and the picture on the front was of the new crane, it included eight (8) men in high vis vests with hard hats and standing around doing nothing with THEIR HANDS IN THEIR POCKETS. It basically summed up our civil servants in one picture. I should make it my desktop wallpaper.

A cull is needed within the civil service, way too many middle management with no real world experience and who would not be able to get a job anywhere else. Way to many Jobsworth's with their hands in their pockets doing half a job and way to many civil servants for the size of the Island and its population. The real world has people applying for their own jobs on lower wages, JT, many finance houses, banks etc are all slimming down using this method and getting rid of any dead wood in the bargain. Why do our politicians not have the balls to do this themselves? We have to remember that getting rid of these people does not increase our expenditure in areas such as social security payments as they are paid via taxes anyway on much higher salaries than they will get if they loose their jobs.

It reminds me of a joke I heards once.
Q: Why doesn't a civil servant look out of the windows in the morning? A: They would have nothing to do all afternoon.

I would also like to see the expenses and wages of politicians being made public. How many are using public money to go on Jollies to London to exclusive restaurants? How many are travelling to foreign parts to take part in non essential meetings, how much does an average politician cost us over a year including the payments made on their behalf? I think if we really found out, we would be in uproar as much of the UK was over their politicians claims.

Offline Durendal

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I am sure that a rigorous inquiry plus appointing well qualified consultants such as myself to write an in depth report could highlight the States inefficiencies and overmanning for a modest 8 figure sum.

Offline Deputy Dawg

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I am sure that a rigorous inquiry plus appointing well qualified consultants such as myself to write an in depth report could highlight the States inefficiencies and overmanning for a modest 8 figure sum.

What for? Everyone with more than an ounce of intelligence can see that the issue is the bloat of the civil service, I can tell you that without an 8 figure sum and an in depth report. You have as much chance of getting that position as we do of any states members with any cojones doing something about it. Choices are to OTL or do something about it.

Offline rico sorda

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So on the 10th march the JEP landed this headline

http://www.thisisjersey.com/2010/03/10/states-deficit-to-hit-64m/

They probably got that from PJ seeing as we were discussing it on the March 1st is that why the site got crashed lol

rs
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Offline vlad1m1r

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So on the 10th march the JEP landed this headline

http://www.thisisjersey.com/2010/03/10/states-deficit-to-hit-64m/

They probably got that from PJ seeing as we were discussing it on the March 1st is that why the site got crashed lol

rs

Maybe that's why the site was blocked!