Author Topic: Social Security Minister: Senator Paul Routier  (Read 10134 times)

Jason the Maverick

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Social Security Minister: Senator Paul Routier
« on: February 07, 2008, 04:59:18 AM »
How do you rate Senator Paul Routier?

Offline David Rotherham

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Re: Social Security Minister: Senator Paul Routier
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2008, 06:16:10 PM »
Decent, serious and keeps away from major gaffes. Or a time-serving nowhere man? Too enigmatic to read.

Offline Darius

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Re: Social Security Minister: Senator Paul Routier
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2008, 07:34:11 PM »
Only dealt with Senator Routier once, was very professional and resolved the issue in a timely manner to circumvent a bureaucratic brick wall. Does a lot of good for disadvantaged in Jersey.

Offline Malachi

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Re: Social Security Minister: Senator Paul Routier
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2008, 10:56:28 PM »
I've met him several times via a business interest he shares with the father of someone one of my brothers knows quite well (how convoluted can you get?). He's nice enough, but I'm annoyed with him for abolishing prescription charges.

By doing so he has made an issue out of something that (to my knowledge) didn't bother a lot of people. If prescription charges were £6.85 per item (as they are in the UK), then they would have bothered/inconvenienced a lot of people, but they were only £2.10 per item.

If you want an analogy, then the poll tax fiasco in the UK is a good one. The system of local taxation (property based 'rates') that preceded the poll tax wasn't liked by those who had to pay and wasn't particularly fair (as in no clear link between having a large house and consuming more locally provided/funded services), but it was tolerated. By introducing the poll tax, the then govt. created a political controversy when there was no need to, and the issue of local taxation in the UK has been hot politics ever since.

Consequently, he has given away £2.5 million without ever being able to get it back (reintroducing charges would be political suicide - see previous paragraph), which is daft given the fact that most people want to States to either spend less money and/or spend it more efficiently. £2.5 million could do a lot of good if it was spent/allocated properly (that is dozens of extra staff that could be employed [or dozens of staff that could be dismissed...]), but he has gifted this away when there was no need to. I'm sure that there exists people for whom the costs of multiple prescription charges were/are a incovenience, but there must be a better way of resolving that problem. I could easily afford the charges (which were £4.20 per month on my 'regime'), so I see no reason why I shouldn't continue to pay them.

Everything associated with the abolition of prescription charges smacks of political/economic stupidity to me.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2008, 11:01:59 PM by Malachi »

AHITS

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Re: Social Security Minister: Senator Paul Routier
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2008, 11:10:54 PM »
By doing so he has made an issue out of something that (to my knowledge) didn't bother a lot of people. If prescription charges were £6.85 per item (as they are in the UK), then they would have bothered/inconvenienced a lot of people, but they were only £2.10 per item.

But Malachi, in the UK you don't have to pay to see a Doctor. It's completely free. Now think how much  it costs to see a GP over here.

Offline Malachi

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Re: Social Security Minister: Senator Paul Routier
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2008, 11:33:30 PM »
True, but the prescription charge wasn't that high in relation to the cost of a consultation (not insignificant; it's still money, but it is 'only' an effective surcharge of 10%)

Consider it another way, if you could afford to cut the Jersey population's bill for govt. 'stuff' by £2.5 million per year, what would you do? For me anyway, scrapping prescription charges wouldn't be high on my list of possibilities.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2008, 11:49:54 PM by Malachi »

mac

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Re: Social Security Minister: Senator Paul Routier
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2008, 01:06:07 AM »
As a family it has saved us approx £42 a month, in the UK I wouldn't have to pay for a doctor or prescriptions.
Yet for people that don't have to take regular prescription medicine theres no benefit, Maybe reducing doctors fee's would have been better

Jason the Maverick

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Re: Social Security Minister: Senator Paul Routier
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2008, 01:15:52 AM »
I agree that the cost to see a doctor is very high in Jersey.  But like the dentists, they set their own prices.

Offline Malachi

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Re: Social Security Minister: Senator Paul Routier
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2008, 01:16:49 AM »
That's what I don't understand; wouldn't people/families needing 20(?) prescriptions per month be better served by some kind of cap on how much anyone should be expected to pay per month?

I used to spend £50 per year on prescriptions (about 10% of what my pills actually cost, incidentally*). Although I'm not wealthy (unemployed atm), it isn't a colossal expense (tank and a bit of petrol = 2 months driving for me). Surely, people like me should be (*nominally) subsidising people/families like you?
« Last Edit: March 04, 2008, 01:20:44 AM by Malachi »

Offline en830

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Re: Social Security Minister: Senator Paul Routier
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2008, 01:33:38 AM »
But Malachi, in the UK you don't have to pay to see a Doctor. It's completely free.

Something of a myth as, just like here, you have to make social security contributions in the form of National Insurance which stands at 11% on earnings between £100 and £670 a week, in comparison to 6.5% capped on earnings at £3,394 per month in Jersey.

You get very little free in life, air being one of them, but give Terry Le Sueur chance I'm sure he'll find a way of taxing it.
You can't get good chinese takeout in China and cuban cigars are rationed in Cuba. That's all you need to know about communism

Offline Darius

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Re: Social Security Minister: Senator Paul Routier
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2008, 01:43:26 AM »
Something of a myth as, just like here, you have to make social security contributions in the form of National Insurance which stands at 11% on earnings between £100 and £670 a week, in comparison to 6.5% capped on earnings at £3,394 per month in Jersey.

You get very little free in life, air being one of them, but give Terry Le Sueur chance I'm sure he'll find a way of taxing it.
And don't forget that the equivalent of employers' contributions are not capped in the UK so that part is paid on the full salary even if the salary is £350,000 per year.

It would still be cheaper to just admit that social security is a tax (and a regressive one which disadvantages those least well of in society since it is capped), scrap the entire over complicated social security system, introduce negative income tax for those who need it and stick an extra 6% on income and corporate tax. Think of how many fewer civil servants we would need with a whole department done away with.

Offline danrok

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Re: Social Security Minister: Senator Paul Routier
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2008, 01:48:06 AM »
I think ours and the UKs system is far better than that in the USA, where you have to take out private cover. It's expensive, and poor people cannot afford it, they just have to go without medical treatment.

mac

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Re: Social Security Minister: Senator Paul Routier
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2008, 02:34:39 AM »
I agree that the cost to see a doctor is very high in Jersey.  But like the dentists, they set their own prices.

Don't start me off on cost of dentist's ;D

AHITS

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Re: Social Security Minister: Senator Paul Routier
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2008, 04:09:10 AM »

Something of a myth as, just like here, you have to make social security contributions in the form of National Insurance which stands at 11% on earnings between £100 and £670 a week, in comparison to 6.5% capped on earnings at £3,394 per month in Jersey.

You get very little free in life, air being one of them, but give Terry Le Sueur chance I'm sure he'll find a way of taxing it.

That's a little pedantic Eno, and overlooks the reality of the situation. If you're in Jersey and require an unexpected visit to the Doctor, you need the money sitting in your pocket. If you don't have money to spare, you ain't getting an appointment.

Despite us being a rich island, there are still people around who find themselves in the positions of having to avoid or delay visits to Doctors because they simply don't have the cash to spare when the need arises.

In the UK, you can walk into a medical centre and get seen by a Doctor that same day, without paying one single penny. You may want to say that service isn't free because it's paid for by taxation, but for the people who are using it without having to check their wallet upfront, it is "free".

I actually find it rather stupendous that with all the money that's sloshed around this island over the years, we don't have an NHS style system. 
« Last Edit: March 04, 2008, 04:18:50 AM by AHITS »

AHITS

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Re: Social Security Minister: Senator Paul Routier
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2008, 04:11:40 AM »
By doing so he has made an issue out of something that (to my knowledge) didn't bother a lot of people. If prescription charges were £6.85 per item (as they are in the UK), then they would have bothered/inconvenienced a lot of people, but they were only £2.10 per item.

Have you not considered that maybe for people who are on low incomes and need a regular prescription (or prescriptions), the removal of that charge could make a big difference?





« Last Edit: March 04, 2008, 04:14:34 AM by AHITS »