Author Topic: A step forward, how to integrate into a country - or stay away ?  (Read 3368 times)

Offline boatyboy

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Open for discussion, obviously one has to respect other peoples views but has it all gone a little to far in one's own homeland. The Dutch seem to think so.


The Netherlands, where six per cent of the population
is now Muslim, is scrapping multiculturalism.
 
The Dutch government says it will abandon the
long-standing model of multiculturalism that
has encouraged Muslim immigrants to create a
parallel society within the Netherlands ...
 
A new integration bill, which Dutch Interior
Minister Piet Hein Donner presented to parliament,
on June 16, 2015 reads:
 
"The government shares the social dissatisfaction
over the multicultural society model and plans
to shift priority to the values of the Dutch people."
 
In the new integration system, the values of the
Dutch society, play a central role.
 
With this change, the government steps away
from the model of a multicultural society.
 
The letter continues: "A more obligatory
integration is justified because the government
also demands that from its own citizens."
 
It is necessary because otherwise the society
  gradually grows apart and eventually no one
feels at home anymore in the Netherlands .
 
The new integration policy will place more
   demands on immigrants.
 
For example, immigrants will be required to
  learn the Dutch language, and the  government
will take a tougher approach to immigrants who
ignore Dutch values or disobey Dutch law.
 
The government will also stop offering special
subsidies for Muslim immigrants because,
according to Donner;
 
"It is not the government's job to integrate
immigrants."  (How bloody true!!!)
 
The government will introduce new legislation
that outlaws forced marriages and will also
impose tougher measures against Muslim immigrants
who lower their chances of employment by the way
they dress.
 
More specifically, the government imposed a ban
on face-covering, Islamic burqas as of January 1, 2015.
 
Holland has done that whole liberal thing, and
realized - maybe too late - that creating a nation
of tribes, will kill the nation itself.
 
The future of Australia , the UK , USA , Canada and
New Zealand may well be read here..
 
READERS NOTE: Muslim immigrants leave their
  countries of birth because of civil and political
unrest . . . "CREATED BY THE VERY NATURE OF
  THEIR CULTURE.”
 
Countries like Holland , Canada , USA , UK , Australia ,
and New Zealand have an established way of life that
actually works, so why embrace the unworkable?
 
If Muslims do not wish to accept another culture,
the answer is  simple; "STAY WHERE YOU ARE!"
 
This gives a whole new meaning to the term, ‘Dutch Courage' ... Unfortunately Australian, UK , USA , Canadian, and New Zealand politicians don't have the guts to do the same.  There's a whole lot of truth here!
 
Only 86% will send this on.  Should be 100%…

Just to make sure this is no spoof also written about in more detail here:

 a documentary aired by the television program Netwerk in June 2009 reported that Dutch law was being systematically undermined by the growth of Sharia justice in the Netherlands.

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/2219/netherlands-abandons-multiculturalism

BB
« Last Edit: July 28, 2015, 04:42:59 PM by boatyboy »

Offline Chevalier Blanc

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Re: A step forward, how to integrate into a country - or stay away ?
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2015, 08:06:42 PM »
Total agree

Offline man in the street

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Re: A step forward, how to integrate into a country - or stay away ?
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2015, 11:35:37 PM »
Totaly agree if you dont like,dont come.
 But as the greedy profiteers, love a bit of cheap labour.
There is little to no chance of any immigration seeing a halt.
Imho

Online shortport

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Re: A step forward, how to integrate into a country - or stay away ?
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2015, 01:23:35 AM »
I agree.
While we don't have a problem with muslims in Jersey (yet) in my opinion we spend far too much time and money bending over backwards for immigrants.Whether it be giving far too generous tax breaks to wealthy immigrants or translating everything at social into Polish and Portugese.Its as if along the way someone forgot that there was a resident population already living here.

Offline Fritz

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Re: A step forward, how to integrate into a country - or stay away ?
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2015, 04:06:08 AM »
I agree.
While we don't have a problem with muslims in Jersey (yet) in my opinion we spend far too much time and money bending over backwards for immigrants.Whether it be giving far too generous tax breaks to wealthy immigrants or translating everything at social into Polish and Portugese.Its as if along the way someone forgot that there was a resident population already living here.
Could you please post that in all the relevant languages required for Jersey,s ,"Cosmopolitan t", society.

Offline boatyboy

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Re: A step forward, how to integrate into a country - or stay away ?
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2015, 06:04:29 AM »

Actually Fritz that's an interesting point and taken up in the article above when you say.

 "Could you please post that in all the relevant languages required for Jersey,s ,"Cosmopolitan t", society. "

As Jersey is not as wealthy as it was, should the local population pay hard earned money for the States to print in different languages and employ translators  for non residents / locals ?

As an example.

when a Polish, Portuguese, Italian etc commit a crime and be interviewed by Mr Police man,  should the local population have to pay an interpreter at 2am in the morning because the man / women cannot communicate in English.

The same for hospital and other States establishments for routine work, not emergencies.

There again is there any harm employing a second generation policeman, doctor or other who speaks both languages perfectly and is qualified to do the job of work ?

My view is that any religion Muslim, Jew, Catholism and others carry a lot of the blame for dividing society. People should be entitled to believe in any God they so wish. As long as is does not affect others, looking at the world today that is clearly a problem  :(     

The same goes for immigrants " when in Rome " as they say.

To finish,  I would not blame any family trying to escape Assad's barrel bombs or Isis murderers and rapists, there has to be compassion.

BB.

Online Jerry Gosselin

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Re: A step forward, how to integrate into a country - or stay away ?
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2015, 08:51:51 AM »

As Jersey is not as wealthy as it was, should the local population pay hard earned money for the States to print in different languages and employ translators  for non residents / locals ?

As an example.

when a Polish, Portuguese, Italian etc commit a crime and be interviewed by Mr Police man,  should the local population have to pay an interpreter at 2am in the morning because the man / women cannot communicate in English.

BB.

The problem with raising issues like this is not that they shouldn't be raised, as they are legitimate issues, but that they tend to encourage the more politically illiterate amongst us to reach very quick, simple, black and white solutions to extremely complicated problems that affect all multicultural societies. This plays into the hands of the far right parties, whose solutions are always incredibly simple too, hence their current popularity with the politically illiterate of Europe. How to deal with foreign criminals? Simple - deport them and stop all other foreign criminals getting into the country in the first place. What if this results in the government breaching its international obligations? Simple again - we just withdraw from any international treaty which we are breaking as a result of our policies. What if our withdrawal from certain international treaties only encourages countries like Turkey to continue mistreating its own minorities? Simple - it's not our problem if Turkey wants to commit human rights violations against the Kurds because that is happening 'abroad' and is therefore nothing at all to do with us. Etc., etc.,...

Providing simple answers like this gained UKIP 3.8 million votes in May's General Election.

Now here is a Freedom of Information response about the costs of interpreters in Jersey:

http://www.gov.je/Government/Pages/StatesReports.aspx?ReportID=1439

£141,165 spent in 2014. There are some unexplained oddities thrown up by this response. For example, we are informed that Education, Sport and Culture hasn't spent a penny on interpreters between 2010 and 2014! I would also point out that the question only asked for the costs of interpreters, making me wonder whether these figures include all the translation costs of the States.

I also noticed that more than half of the annual costs of providing language tuition 'for staff' comes under 'States Assembly'. That's interesting- are States Members learning foreign languages at the taxpayers' expense to help them when they go on their junkets to Tel Aviv, Budapest, Bucharest, Lagos etc.? £8,770 was racked up by the States Assembly on foreign language tuition last year...


Offline boatyboy

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Re: A step forward, how to integrate into a country - or stay away ?
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2015, 07:16:04 PM »
Quote from Jerry Gosselin,

The problem with raising issues like this is not that they shouldn't be raised, as they are legitimate issues, but that they tend to encourage the more politically illiterate amongst us to reach very quick, simple, black and white solutions to extremely complicated problems that affect all multicultural societies.

End

That is exactly the issue. It has become somehow wrong to mention how they are all speaking in another language and not bothering to learn English. They cover themselves in a Burka unnerving kids in the classroom, but must not be discriminated against. Appear in a court of law but no one except a female may view the face of the Burka person.

Maybe the issue is not with the multicultural society more with the narrow minded, let us stay individual with our own people and form a ghetto,  ( in the host country ).

I personally have been in an institution ( not with a straightjacket on though probably deserved ) whereby of the twenty or so people attending they were from all parts of the world and a delight to be with. I understood cosmopolitan. The point being cosmopolitan means to me sharing the same values in any given society regardless of colour.

Obviously values, laws and religion vary in different countries which is fine of course. Then you lump them all together and the problems start if laws from one country ( as an example ) are overlaid over the host country such as Sharia law, or how about marrying at fourteen, or how about avenging the shame of the husbands family on a young wife who prefers not stay with a cruel new husband ( by arranged marriage ) and absconds.

So Jerry it seems to me that maybe Governments should follow the Dutch and exclude those that cannot accept the laws, language, society and the religions that exist, rather than seeking to overthrow the host society. Is it not ridiculous to see radical Muslims marching in the UK, many on benefits  with children being educated for free, yelling what a crap place England is and claiming their right to free hospital care and everything else ?

Mind you Indian and Chinese food is delicious  ;)

BB 
« Last Edit: July 30, 2015, 04:46:19 AM by boatyboy »

Offline Fritz

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Re: A step forward, how to integrate into a country - or stay away ?
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2015, 02:59:08 AM »
Bottom line is.
Host countries, (Be it UK or Jersey), are dragging themselves down by being too politically correct in providing services for immigrants.

Had to laugh a few weeks ago when dropping off some hard copy SS returns into the ,"Kremlin".
There was a little box screwed to a wall full of,"How to claim", (Or such-like),forms and some wag had written on the front of one of the forms in big black marker pen, "ENGLISH VERSIONS MIGHT BE USEFUL FOR SOME FOLK".

Online shortport

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Re: A step forward, how to integrate into a country - or stay away ?
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2015, 04:32:43 AM »
I see the states are currently advertising for 'language assistants' at £14.30 an hour.
Maybe that's why they're cutting back on food at the hospital >:(

Offline Fritz

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Re: A step forward, how to integrate into a country - or stay away ?
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2015, 01:41:52 AM »
Its a very steep,slippery,slope Jersey is going down by trying to cater for every immigrant community,s needs.
Government departments in Jersey love it though. They can,"Staff up", to whatever level they deem necessary in order to comply with UK standards. (Most ,"High Heid Yins", in the civil service are UK imports themselves and dont seem to realise that they are working on a 9x4 Island). Wont be long before we have a 1:1 ratio of Teachers to pupils in school classrooms.

Offline Chevalier Blanc

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Re: A step forward, how to integrate into a country - or stay away ?
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2015, 07:35:39 PM »
Holland want to bring a law in that any emigrants that want to come and live in Holland have to learn the language and wearing the burka is against the law.
The reason is that Holland is quick becomes a country with 40 odd different nationality's and Dutch would no longer be the majority and the lanaguage would also disappear.and
England has already turned like this in some of their cities. A Londoner said that it is very hard to hear english in London now a days.
Also the people getting out of their country to come to a better way of life should follow all the laws of that country not to try and change the country that has taken them in.

Offline Fritz

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Re: A step forward, how to integrate into a country - or stay away ?
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2015, 01:30:34 AM »
Australia has the right idea."Dont come here seeking a better life than the one you have come from and then try to feck it up". Or words to that effect.

Offline boatyboy

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Re: A step forward, how to integrate into a country - or stay away ?
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2015, 04:35:51 PM »

In an effort to present the facts and not hype or drivel, came across this article that to be frank shows the UK political leaders like Foreign secretary Philip Hammond, and Theresa May are either misinformed, which is unlikely given the resources of Government, or out of touch maybe plain untruthful. So obviously foreign minister Bailhache will have nothing to do with them. There again he has plenty to do with Philip Ozouf and Alan Maclean.

Sorry I digress.

Accurate information is everything and this jurno appears to have done his arduous homework blowing a hole in the argument that immigrants are overunning the UK.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/aug/10/10-truths-about-europes-refugee-crisis

bb