Author Topic: Another Fantasy or just a Bad Dream ?  (Read 5843 times)

Offline boatyboy

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Another Fantasy or just a Bad Dream ?
« on: September 28, 2014, 07:17:06 PM »
The £200,000 given to the fantasy film company is still in the publics mind, but so should the £315,000 that has been spent on the West Park Pool a complete waste of the publics hard earned money in my opinion. This is not about the immense sea weed problem that is just another issue.

Please let me attempt to join a few dot's.

First off it was a terrific dream of Mr Pierre Horsfall to want something of use for the public, for the youth for the tourists sailing and other clubs. He is an excellent speaker and convinced the rate payers at St Heliers' assembly to support his idea with a grant of £100,000. He was not happy when I mentioned in a telephone conversation they had not been shown the problems, in order to make a balanced judgement.

It is essential that people think laterally, create and invent. It is part of human nature to want to improve and innovate. I remember ideas from states members including a bridge to France from Jersey and an airport on the Écréhous. Welcome ideas but research showed that they were attainable certainly, but not viable or practical once scrutinised.

This - in my opinion is where the refurbishment of West Park pool fails completely. It became clear to me, that as a panel containing experts had deliberated, and boards had had discussions, the West Park Project was going ahead using the publics money, not private investment which I suggest would have raised no objection.

The difference between the fantasy film episode and the West Park Pool project is that the main players and media were warned before a brick was laid.

This was not a viable useful way to spend the publics hard earned money. States members including Treasury Minister Ozouf who signed off £100,000 and maybe £115,000 from the tourism fund, plus all Jersey main media being the JEP, ITV Channel TV and BBC Jersey received a report on the 10th April 2014 explaining the reasons that this pool rebuild was a gross extravagant waste of the publics money.

Tomorrow, Monday I shall put up on here,  the short report in an email to Pierre Horsfall and copied to the Jersey media and who, to the best of my knowledge, did not publish. I also sent copies to several politicians that were involved.

What is interesting is that a few of the  politicians who want you to re-elect them did not invite further discussion but went with the panel as there was no room for debate.

I used to make my living for more than a decade working on the beach hiring boats and working in exactley this environment. The very least the panel of experts and politicians could have done is to invite me in, and then try and rip apart my report which is not difficult to understand by islanders familier with the natural beach environment.

The train left the station and there was no going back. One does wonder if this would have been the case had it been their own money at risk ?

So reader you will have a chance to read the report - the same report that Mr Horsfall, Constable Crowcroft, Treasury Minister Ozouf and other decision makers read tomorrow and decide on whether West Park Pool was indeed entirely justified or " Another Fantasy or just a bad dream " complete waste of money.

Boatyboy

aka

Paul Letherbarow.

« Last Edit: October 05, 2014, 08:01:24 PM by boatyboy »

Offline voiceforchildren

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Re: Another Fantasy or just a Bad Dream ?
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2014, 10:37:39 PM »
BB.

I look forward to reading your report on here as it seems it will be the only place it will be available. An unfavourable report for the establishment and the MSM bury it.......Who would have thought?
An alternative to Jersey's State Media

Offline Fritz

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Re: Another Fantasy or just a Bad Dream ?
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2014, 12:44:28 AM »
I look forward to reading your report. I always thought the west park pool thing needed sorted, but no real practical solution was ever suggested. Just visions of a beautiful sailing pond etc, which we,d all love to see.

Offline boatyboy

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Re: Another Fantasy or just a Bad Dream ?
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2014, 10:30:04 PM »
Introduction .

The Project leaders of the West Park Pool Development Budget States £200,000

Public donations £60,000

Chairmen Pierre Horsfall CBE.

Simon Crowcroft Constable of St Helier

Clive Barton St Helier Procureur du Bien Public

Lee Henry Managing - Director of the Jersey Development Company

Tony Andrews Director of Parks, Gardens and Open Spaces

John Stievenard Director, T&E Services

Howard Le Cornu Marine Services Consultant

Chris Sampson Transport and Technical Services Director of Engineering

Geraint Jennings local historian and Jèrriais Teacher

Simon Le Huray St Catherine’s Sailing Club

Jeremy Swetenham Royal Channel Islands Yacht Club

Nigel Coxshall St Helier Yacht Club

Ted Vibert First Tower Residents’ Association


Jersey is spoilt with its fabulous surfing, sailing, canoeing and sub aqua diving beaches, bays and open sea choices. It gets better still for children to learn to swim, with heated school pools, the Aquasplash and Quennevais pools.

The clear leader for dinghy club sailing is St Catherine’s Sailing Club, who’s European competitive class sailing parents now teach their children and other youngsters as do the Royal Channel Islands yacht club cadet section and a states funded school outdoor activity sailing centre in the school break summer months at St Aubins Fort.

There is a fleet of Hobie Catamarans named as fleet 386 that race, and a racing calendar and large regattas’ for big boys / girls and their toys.
As such the West Park Pool, built in 1897 was enjoyed by many but times have moved on with fewer tourists whom are not satisfied with a big quaint pond in a modern world of modern water parks.

Before the first online brochure was removed it boasted of a ideal place also for the disabled to take up watersports.

Having been on the Havre des Pas working group for three years the possibility of disabled availability to the pool was aired. There are many excellent swimmers and water sports people who are disabled. The Harve des Pas group and myself were convinced not to provide ramps for wheel chairs to the water etc because the chairman Senator Paul Routier agreed that it is a cold environment generally and the non disabled, after a swim can  jump around and warm up, but the disabled have far more difficulty after a cold swim.

Also wheel chairs and sand do not mix well.

The youth of Jersey are generally excellent swimmers, sailors and surfers representing Jersey internationally. Do they need a cold seawater pool subject to weather to advance their skills. How about the first tower residents, do they deserve a third of a million pound pool.  Actually if it was well used there may be some weight in the argument but not a sea pool subject to a small window of temperamental  weather. Is there also not a question over whether all the Project team are actually qualified in water sports tides and weather patterns / conditions.


THE REPORT AS WRITTEN

April 10th 2014. By email.

Dear Mr Horsfall,

Thank you for your frank and open telephone call last evening, regarding the refurbishment of the West Park Pool which you wish to see rebuilt and updated with a view to opening up the use for St Helier residents’ and all to enjoy.

I understand that your good self and Constable Crowcroft have been very keen to promote this dream which is commendable but in reality is it viable and workable ?

I wrote over a year and a half ago warning of the implications and problems associated with this project and would hate to see Constable Crowcroft and yourself in the unenviable position of the naïve people behind the fantasy film, which was given a grant of taxpayers money which now appears lost.

When I spoke with Constable Crowcroft’s secretary it was interesting that she mentioned like yourself, that this refurbishment plan had gone through a panel of experts and professionals. This suggests that the questions asked below have all received satisfying answers and you are both comfortable in the position you now take.

The bottom line is not complicated at all. With such a large financial cost how many days will the pool be available for the public and organisations to make full use of ?

These are the essential questions regarding the feasibility of the project which it is hoped will have all be addressed. I strongly suggest that you seek the further advice of the harbour office and statistics department people to give you a professional evaluation of the subject and more accurate figures, if they have not done so already.

Questions that need clear answers.

1) How many months of the year will the pool be utilised ?

2) How many days of those months will activities be carried on ?

3) How many days are available for activities primarily in the summer months when the pool is “ not “ covered by the tide?

4) How reliant is the facility on good weather .

5) What other locations around Jersey could offer similar activity. If they do not, why not ?

For the pool to be used it is preferable that tide should be falling ( ebb ) and not coming in ( flooding ) [1]. It would be use full to measure at what height of tide the walls flood for further analysis. I suggest that if the tide is low at say 1.00 pm on any given day this would be the ideal scenario to fully utilise the facility. It is a fact that the pool is built a reasonable way down the beach and has relatively low walls, and will therefore flood quicker than its sister pool at Havre des Pas. Further more high and low pressure will have an effect on the tide.

It is obvious that howling gales will not be beneficial therefore it follows that the outside pool is also weather reliant for some activities. [2].

It is envisaged that a selection of different groups interested in different water sports or activities will wish to use the facility. [3].


Jersey tide table for August 2014.    Y= tide out, pool not flooded at convenient day time.

Date   High   Height (M)   High   Height (M)   Low   Height (M)   Low   Height (M)   

1   10:13   9.8   22:23   9.8   04:33   2.3   16:47   2.5   
2   10:43   9.4   22:56   9.3   05:04   2.7   17:20   3.0   
3   11:18   8.9   23:36   8.8   05:37   3.1   17:58   3.4   
4   12:04   8.5   **   **   06:18   3.6   18:48   3.8   
5   00:33   8.4   13:14   8.2   07:17   3.9   20:01   4.0   
6   01:53   8.2   14:42   8.4   08:39   4.0   21:27   3.7   
7   03:21   8.5   16:04   9.0   10:06   3.5   22:46   3.0   
8   Y   04:39   9.2   17:12   9.8   11:21   2.8   23:55   2.2   
9   Y   05:44   10.0   18:12   10.6   12:25   2.0   **   **   
10 Y   06:42   10.7   19:06   11.3   00:57   1.5   13:24   1.4   
11 Y   07:33   11.3   19:55   11.8   01:54   0.8   14:18   0.9   
12 Y   08:21   11.7   20:42   12.0   02:45   0.4   15:06   0.6   
13   09:06   11.7   21:26   11.9   03:33   0.3   15:51   0.6   
14   09:48   11.5   22:07   11.5   04:15   0.5   16:33   0.9   
15   10:27   11.0   22:47   10.7   04:55   0.9   17:12   1.5   
16   11:05   10.2   23:26   9.8   05:33   1.7   17:50   2.3   
17   11:44   9.4   **   **   06:10   2.6   18:31   3.1   
18   00:10   8.9   12:33   8.6   06:54   3.4   19:24   3.8   
19   01:11   8.1   13:45   8.0   07:54   4.1   20:40   4.2   
20   02:41   7.8   15:18   8.0   09:17   4.3   22:09   4.1   
21   04:09   8.1   16:35   8.5   10:39   3.9   23:21   3.5   
22 Y   05:12   8.7   17:30   9.2   11:42   3.4   **   **   
23 Y
    05:59   9.3   18:13   9.7   00:13   3.0   12:30   2.8   
24 Y   06:39   9.8   18:51   10.2   00:57   2.5   13:10   2.4   
25 Y   07:15   10.1   19:26   10.5   01:35   2.1   13:47   2.1   
26 Y   07:48   10.4   19:57   10.6   02:09   1.9   14:21   1.9   
27 Y   08:18   10.5   20:28   10.7   02:42   1.8   14:53   1.8   
28      08:48   10.6   20:58   10.7   03:12   1.7   15:23   1.8   
29   09:18   10.5   21:28   10.5   03:41   1.8   15:53   1.9   
30   09:46   10.2   21:57   10.2   04:09   2.0   16:23   2.2   
31   10:15   9.8   22:28   9.7   04:38   2.4   16:54   2.7   


Brief explanations.

[1]   A Falling tide is no danger once the pool is free from the tide. A flooding tide is a liability depending on the time of day and whether it is a spring which can advance quickly ( using the twelfths rule ) on a flat beach like St Aubins.
It is possible with the input of the statistics department and a member of the harbour office to work an accurate chart telling the pool operators which days of optimum use and secondary use (pool open early morning, late afternoon for specific activities). It is noted that the tide hits the wall and there is no escape to evacuate higher up the beach.

[2]   Weather cannot be controlled but the best that can be achieved is to mathematically work out averages. Take Jersey weather spanning at least a hundred years, ( our lives are just less than a micro dot in time ) and work out average rain fall, hours of sunshine, storms etc in the summer months. This will give a very basic ( but not guaranteed snapshot) 

[3]    Small sailing craft for beginners require wind at or around 1 to 10 knots force or 1 to 3 on the Beaufort scale. Paddle canoes require a reasonably flat sea, wind is obviously not required. Scuba classes that may wish to use the pool are more interested in a warm place to change and clear water as apposed to rain, sunshine or wind.

Summary and personal opinion.

The tidal chart shows that there are roughly thirteen suitable tide days in August when the pool is usable all day. This is not the truth, on those days there is no guarantee that Jersey will have good weather there may in fact be a wet and windy gale coming through. There are many other factors like safe storage of safety equipment, damage to craft against hard walls, parking, etc. not explored here.

The pool could be used later or earlier by an organised group say a children’s sailing club who may use kids Optimist’s dinghies on an early pleasant summer evening. However - why - would they go to all the trouble to trailer to the pool to rig their boats and pack away when the cadets section of St Catherines’ sailing club and the two larger SHYC and Royal C.I. Yacht Club provide excellent and convenient facilities for young sailors. The out door activity department at education run by Steven Pearl also has sailing dinghies.

In my personal experience an advancing high spring tide is not to be underestimated especially with dealing with novice windsurfers and dinghy sailors who can be alarmed at the speed of the approaching tide. It makes little difference regarding the planned activities for this pool. Nature will dictate when this pool may or may not be  used, however good or honourable individual human intentions or plans are.

Hoping the pool will be as popular as the sixties or seventies when Jersey had tens of thousands of tourists is just not going to happen, the world has moved on and so have the tourists, there is no reasonable income to be earned from this project from any area, given that Jersey’s climate and tides are in full control and what is left is not enough.


Given that this project is publicised in the public domain and may be funded by the tax and rate payers, you no doubt sir want as wider debate as possible. I feel it reasonable to copy in those that have expressed an interest.

Kind Regards,

Paul Letherbarrow.

Brief history

Started Longbeach Windsurfing and Boating Centre 1984 ran through to 1997
Initiated Funboats on Havre des Pas Pool with permission of JSC operated for thirteen years.

Had permission from Tourism to operate fun boats from West Park ( forgotten which years as only serviced the pool for four days one season )
Raced as crew with Hobie Cat fleet 386 over two seasons. Own two Hobie Cats now.

St Helier Yacht Club and Royal Channel Island Yacht Club member for over thirty five years
On the St Helier Yacht club executive - six years

Cc to.

Constable Crowcroft.

Treasury Minister Phillip Ozouf.

Senator Ferguson. Corporate scrutiny

Constable Philip Rondel ( Senior Member St Helier Yacht club )

Economics Minister Alan Maclean

Deputy Tracy Vallois.  public scrutiny committee

Jersey Evening Post.

BBC Jersey

CTV

End

Obviously there are only 13 to 14 days each month when the pool can be used all day.

More facts including statements from Mr Horsfall and others tomorrow.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2015, 05:35:34 AM by boatyboy »

Offline Fritz

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Re: Another Fantasy or just a Bad Dream ?
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2014, 02:11:11 AM »
So, basically, quite a few quid has been wasted on this,"Not properly thought out", project?
Nothing new to see here. Move on.

Offline boatyboy

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Re: Another Fantasy or just a Bad Dream ?
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2014, 09:58:27 PM »
The local internet news revealed that the pool refurbishment was going ahead. I phoned Constable Simon Crowcroft in disbelief. I have always found Simon to be approachable and helpful. He was not in office but his secretary asked for some back round information, I told her and after being told sternly that a panel of experts had looked at the project and given it the green light, my call would be returned.

At home that evening a call was received, it was Pierre Horsfall he also mentioned the expert advice he had been given.

It did not go well.

We did not agree on several points including the funding. I tried pointing out it was a smelly, noisy place with a seriously limited tidal window and unreliable weather pattern. Re-build it yes but with private money not public money as it was a waste of time for several practical reasons.
He then said Ahhh but the rate payers of St Helier voted overwhelmingly to donate £100,000 to the project.

I then responded by saying they must have been misinformed, that’s when the balloon went up and Mr Horsfall became vocally loud.
In retrospect he is correct, and may I publicly apologies to Mr Horsfall for being so rude.

What I should have said was, with a project designed expressly to add to the quality of life of islanders and help the tourism industry, have the ratepayers been made fully aware of the tidal and weather limitations and other problems  of this type of sea pool ?

As most of the project team are in the employment of the parish or States ( see the list above ) will any of them be voting in the Parish hall rates assembly, as they are clearly conflicted ?

Were the rate payers made aware that a further £60,000 was to be raised by public appeal to individuals, businesses and  organisations and which would underpin support for the project. Should there be no take up then the money would or at least should be returned to the Parish of St Helier ? ( no funds are shown to have been collected by appeal, let alone £60,000 )

We agreed to disagree but to be fair to Mr Horsfall he was interested enough in my views to ask that I write to him with my concerns. I did and you can read that letter / report above.

You will notice reader that I also copied in the JEP, Channel TV, and BBC Radio to this day not one of them has commented or published, however when the story arrived about the pool being basically unusable because of the Sea weed lettuce problem, It would have been a reasonable time for at least one of islands media to mention that there had been questions asked before work had started on the pool. Is this not a public facility and a public interest story ?

The seaweed problem in all honesty did not occur to me, but has been on the pool for decades. Before the Marina was built as we had the boating concession for the pool at that time and over the few days we attended, clearly remember trying to clean out a pathway into the pools deeper water.

It needs to be made clear that many people have acted in what they feel is the best interest of the island by supporting the expensive refurbishment of this dismal pool.

They have been sold on romantic ideas based on love of Royalty, of Jersey’s by gone days when tourists swarmed here in their thousands. Worst of all the pool idea has been sold using an inaccurate picture of the paralympic and Olympic games. Disabled and able bodied swimmers train in heated pools day in day out all the year round. Sailing and other sports do not confine themselves to a sea pool the size of a football pitch.

Click on the link below to read the publicity brochure that was written to sell the idea of the pool to the public, it is also in internet form.

http://www.jerseymarinelake.co.uk

Its all gone hasn’t it but this was the link.  The names the endorsers, the fact that the budget was £200,000 plus £60,000 even the drum thumping endorsements were are all there but now removed and rewritten.

Do not worry reader.

Thanks to an IT guru friend, my copy has been put back up on the internet. It is indeed a very convincing and professionally produced document, one wonders as no money had been allocated to the project at the time, who produced it and who paid ? Shame several key facts are missing and of course the question lingers as to why was it removed.

http://planetjersey.co.uk/marine_lake_brochure.pdf

Tomorrow or maybe the next day, what the politicians had to say when they were emailed. What an honest person Deputy Mike Higgins is - and what he revealed, and Senator Ozouf has a lot to say about signing a cheque for SoJDevelopmemt Company to project manage and contribute another £100,000.

Boatyboy.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2014, 03:05:31 AM by boatyboy »

Offline boatyboy

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Re: Another Fantasy or just a Bad Dream ?
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2014, 08:14:44 PM »
The politicians, some views, answers and skulduggery


As you will see from the original brochure designed to sell the refurbishment of the pool to the public, it says:

http://planetjersey.co.uk/marine_lake_brochure.pdf

Quote:

‘All four deputies in our area - Deputies Andrew Green, Jackie Hilton, Richard Rondel and Mike Higgins - fully support the concept of having a refurbished pool at West Park and are giving us whatever help we need.’

I thought it would be interesting to find out where they stand so emailed the four of them with a copy of the report I had sent to Mr Horsfall and the media and leading politicians.

Deputy Andrew Green, whom I have know since schools days was polite and took the time to respond in a thoughtful email, basically saying he still thought it was a good  idea and we would have to agree to disagree. OK fair enough.

Deputy Jackie Hilton said she walked there everyday and supported the refurb. As it happened I met her in the street with her little pouch a few weeks later,and we had a slightly strained chat. The sun was out, the weather warm and I pointed out why this pool idea was a waste of the publics money after she said she had just walked at West Park. Although a lovely day there was a stiff wind ( not breeze ) who would want to use the pool today I asked ? No answer. 

Again Deputy Hilton has her own views.

Richard Rondel was contacted, and  I met him and Tracy Vallois by chance and had a good chat and he is nice person but kept pretty much silent and a few months later confessed he was stil in favour. Not someone that one has much confidence in as a leader to be honest. If he was a colour it would be white.

The last of the four  deputies  quoted as " giving us whatever help we need  " as written in the brochure, started out as complete and utter disappointment the deputy being Mike Higgins. No response nothing, zero. At least the other deputies had been polite enough to respond. I spoke with a friend and he said that is not like Mike give him a call which I did and got the answer phone.

He did phone back, and after listening to my concerns, said he did not remember getting the emails I sent -  as the states block or lose some of his emails sent to his gov.je account.

Would I please forward them all again to his private email account away from the States members account which I did. I asked him about his name in the brochure the answer was. What brochure, " I only attended a meeting " I certainy have not given my permission to be named in any brochure supporting the pool.

The conversation was open free and I felt he was honest.

I asked him if he supported the pool in a luke warm way he said, it did not seem a bad idea. The conversation ended and I felt a little sad for a man that asks the difficult questions in the States, and whom they try and isolate by messing around with his email account. He came over as completely honest and is the sort of person with integrity that should be a minister if not Chief Minister in my humble opinion.

I have asked Senator Ozouf, and several of the other politicians if I may publish their emails to show their point of view on the matter.

They all refused or ignored my email except for Constable Philip Rondel. I have spoken with him many times at St Helier Yacht club. He comes across as not suffering fools, but open and honest. He is a boating man for most of his life and calls it as he sees it, and I believe picked up on my point of view instantly.

Below is his opinion's on the Jubillemarine lake refurbishment at a cost of £314,000 paid for by the tax and ratepayers , with his permission to publish his views.

Constable Philip Rondel

April 10th  2014.

As a rate and Tax payer I do not wish my money going on Historic nice to have's

Phil

Constable Philip Rondel  April 29th

As for the proposed use as described by Horsefall and Crowcroft are these people living in the 60s thing have moved on, many of the sea sports proposed would not be viable in 2015.

Email  to Constable Rondel from myself.

Good Morning Phillip,

It was only a matter of time. You could clearly see that Pierre Horsfall was living in the past, and it was only a matter of time before questions would be asked. I would like to know where the ridiculous figure of 300 to 400 people a day were swimming in the pool placed against the weather forcasts and tide when the pool first opened as they claim, this needs questioning.

May I suggest you ask these questions publicly, as one of just three politicians who said this was a bad idea and deserve credit.

May I quote you as not being in favour, as the media are getting more interest in the report I sent to Pierre Horsefall, your good self and other politicians and the media on the 10th of April.

Maybe you have changed your position and think this was a good spend of the publics money, I should not assume.

Kind Regards,

Paul.L

Reply.

Constable Philip Rondel                  Sept.  5th

Paul
 
No problem Mr Horsfall was the person who pushed for Ministerial Government, saying when questioned by me as to lack of details, he would put the meat on the bones later , so what happened he left office and never put the meat on the bones.

Leaving a mess which could take years to put right , the West park pool is another of his bright idea’s.
 
Phil

Next time

Where has the money gone, a builders point of view, how much home work on spending your money did Treasury Minister Ozouf do ? The charity organisation running the pool at a loss and will they still be there in four years time and once you have read the evidence you can decide was this  " Another Fantasy or just a bad dream " or indeed in the times of black holes money well spent ?

Boatyboy.

 
« Last Edit: October 04, 2014, 07:40:53 PM by boatyboy »

Offline shortport

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Re: Another Fantasy or just a Bad Dream ?
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2014, 06:54:45 PM »
good work Boaty boy.
I hope you keep on going till you get answers and even some articles in the mainstream media about what a farce and waste of money this project is/was.Unfortunately i'm sure it is only one of many.Our government seems to treat tapayers with no respect whatsoever and no accountability.Just hit us with more and more taxes to cover their balls ups.Fair play to Mike Higgins though.

Offline boatyboy

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Re: Another Fantasy or just a Bad Dream ?
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2014, 07:32:29 PM »
A POLL INVITES YOUR OPINION AT THE START OF THIS ARTICLE.


In an effort to keep this as short as possible in a world of information overload I offer this final episode of “ Another fantasy or just a bad dream

The Builder.

In general conversation with an experienced builder friend I happened to mentioned the West Park Pool he added greatly.

He explained that  when building a modern structure you need stamped industry approved materials that comply. This includes materials like insulation, Tiles, wood, laminates, concrete blocks or bricks of a certain density. Double glazing, central heating systems, and electrical wiring systems. A lot goes into a build he said with many different trades being involved.

He had seen the figure of £315,000 in the paper weeks before and wondered how patching up an existing wall, with stone and concrete using basic materials and skills, could cost so much, I pointed out that a bunker was to be converted for storage and probably a loo, again he said it is not in the middle of a field it is close to all main services, and the bunker is there already.

It appears here that in fact the wall and gate repairs cost just over a quarter of a million.

Quote

The project was put out to tender in March and three Contractors submitted bids, the lowest being from Rateavon Jersey Ltd in the sum of £258,000.

http://www.jerseymarinelake.co.uk/news/marine-lake-contractor-chosen/

This then raises the question what happened to the other £57,000 as TTS have excellent engineers ( some ex harbour office ) that could copy and improve the old sluice gates and are employed full time and could easily have rebuilt or fabricated new sluice gates.

The Bosdet Foundation.

Mike Walker Manager of The Bosdet  Foundation have formed a trust, with an “ obligation “ to fund the operation of the pool for five years.

Quote:

And finally the Bosdet Foundation committed to operate the lake with an annual net subsidy of £50,000 per year for 5 years. The Foundation is keen to see youth, older residents, families, and less able people of the island have the opportunity to enjoy swimming and a range of other aquatic activities that will enrich their lives.

The Bosdet Foundation is operating the lake with beach life guards, aquatic activities, and community programmes at no cost to the tax payer on behalf of the
Parish of St Helier.

http://www.jerseymarinelake.co.uk/about/funding/

No doubt the Bosdet foundation, a charity using profits from various commercial enterprises is a welcome partner and does excellent work in other charitable areas. I spoke on the phone with Mike Walker who was not a happy man.

It did not go well.

He said the pool had been well used by three to four hundred people  a day and I was in danger of embarrassing myself. Confirmed facts work for me, not words. He then went on to correctly point out  that Fort Regent is subsidized by £500,000  a year and so is the Aquasplash so what is the problem with the pool  and spending the publics money by implication  ?

Again north and south opinions.

The fact is that both the Fort and Aqua are year round amenities that do not suffer because of nature ie bad weather or tidal variation. This fact has been put on the back burner by Bosdet, I doubt very much that they will be there in two years time maybe they should have taken more notice.
Clearly the profits they make from commercial businesses would be better spent on other charity projects. It would be outrageous if the States subsidized the running of the pool through grants to Bosdet foundation giving the impression of jobs for the boy’s

The Constable Simon Crowcroft

In the original telephone conversation with Mr Pierre Horsfall he commented that the Bosdet Charity organisation would contribute £50,000 pounds a year over five years and The Constable had pledged a further £20,000 over the same period. I wondered if the monthly town hall assembly had voted for this extra £100,000 but never received a response from either of the two Procureur du Bien Public whom I emailed and asked. Again these figure are confirmed in the on line blurb.

Quote:

To this end Bosdet have offered to be responsible for contributing £50,000 per year for five years and the Parish will contribute £20,000 per year for maintenance of the Lake. This agreement should shortly be finalised and its operation will be overseen by the Marine Lake Purpose Trust.

http://www.jerseymarinelake.co.uk/news/marine-lake-project-update/

Senator Paul Routier.

He was chairman of the Havre Des Pas working group when the pool was refurbished some time back. It was decided at a public meeting before work started that it would be helpful if members of the public got involved to input into what was to be an update and large investment in the facility. Having the concession for the funboats there and also running Longbeach windsurfing it was felt I may be of some use and was invited onto the panel.

The minutes will show that a discussion took place regarding the disabled use of the pool. I was in favour of disabled facilities as there are changing facilities a café and large building structure. It was suggested that a sea pool was no conducive due to the problems of a less able bodied person being able to keep or maintain body warmth. Also wheelchairs  do not like beaches. The chairmen Paul Routier did not disagree and contributed to what we felt was a worth while discussion so the motion was turned down and today you will see there are no built in special facilities for the disabled at Havre des Pas pool.

How odd is it that with his experience as chairman of the Havre des Pas panel in the publicity pre build brochure ( now removed ) Senator Routier writes.

Quote:

“Senator Paul Routier, who was awarded an MBE for services to people with learning disabilities, sees
the proposed Marine Lake as a way of permanently building on that legacy.

‘Having returned from the opening ceremony of the Paralympics full of inspiration and enthusiasm for continuing the drive to ensure that people with disabilities can participate in as many sports as possible, I am really excited to hear of the plans to refurbish the Marine Lake at West Park. It is also very pleasing to hear that the plan is to ensure that people with disabilities will also be encouraged to take part in water sports. I do hope that the public will support the proposal to restore the Marine Lake for the benefit of all our community.’

May I add that in my report to Mr Horsfall I asked

5) What other locations around Jersey could offer similar activity. If they do not, why not ?

The expert panel should have considered the obvious question and Senator Routier should with his experiance Of Havre des Pas needs to explain his new enthusiasm.


Senator Philip Ozouf.

Senator Ozouf again was very receptive to the emails and I thank him for taking the time. The first email he sent was on April the 10th the last September 28th. It is my understanding that Treasury Minister Ozouf acts like the umbilical cord  that connects the States to the independently run quangos like SoJDC, JT etc. as they are operated at arms length from Jerseys' Government.

As treasurer he can veto or approve any spending on big ticket items. He confirmed this in his emails.

This issue however is about using £100,000 in safe keeping with the SoJDevelopment Company to fund a dream that offers little benefit in my opinion.

As it is a public interest issue,  I have asked if the emails can be released but Senator Ozouf is not at all keen and as such ignored my requests. I also asked to see the minutes of the board meeting at SoJDC  regarding discussions on this subject, again no response.

I feel it would not be appropriate to print the emails but offer the message instead. The contents are about a public facility using the publics tax pound so the gist of  his reply on the 28th September informs that he goes to great lengths and much detail as a shareholder which he takes very seriously. He makes it clear the strictness which he lays down regarding public spending I hope you grasp the message I did.

Is it not strange that on April 10th Six months earlier, Senator Ozouf sent a far shorter email, wrote that he " really didn’t know much about this "

Although the Treasury Minister constantly reminds us he is looking after the “ publics money  “ in this issue there is no evidence to support  his words.

Epilogue:

Fritz - a long time  planet Jersey member states another states overspend nothing new time to move on.

However when pensioners and low to middle income individuals and families are about to be “ hit “ with further taxes , with an increase in user pays front line charges, and on the table is an increase in GST  which affects all basic commodities even food.

I feel comfortable  and humble in being able to put this information into the public domain. Something I believe the Jersey Evening Post, ITV Channel or BBC Jersey radio should have done as professionals in or around the 10th April 2014. They had all the information and apposing view supported with facts, but decided to report nothing. How is this in the public interest, the same public that keeps them in work.

I am just an amateur, and not that good but I hope you have more information now to decide if the refurbishment is a good idea or “ Another fantasy or just a bad dream “ which is a ridiculous title as it appears the film fantasy debacle and £200,000 cheque giveaway, was the decision of a couple of people almost in secret. Mr Horsfall and others received a report which had serious questions asked before a mix of cement had been laid and did nothing.

Boatyboy.

AkA

Paul Letherbarrow.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2014, 08:05:22 PM by boatyboy »

Offline man in the street

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Re: Another Fantasy or just a Bad Dream ?
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2014, 02:50:58 AM »
 it was good to see the old pool  revamped .
 it was slowly disappearing into the sand.
and another example  of , just let it rot , from our government.
 the sea lettuce will never go away, so we have to live with it .
lets face it if it was  not for the amount of residents in this tiny island , the beaches would be totally deserted.
 still there's a nice fishing platform  in it now  just swim out  before the  tide covers the pool . and sit out here till the tide  goes out  and uncovers the pool again.
 but alas  as per, it cost a fortune.
 but beats the fantasy film hands down .
 at least the pool  is there  and the workers paid tax and social ( i hope )

Offline boatyboy

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Re: Another Fantasy or just a Bad Dream ?
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2014, 01:42:21 AM »

West Park Pool has proven to be a dead dog and complete waste of the public hard earned £315,000 in tax money. 
The sea lettuce  ( about for decades ) plus the noisy DUWK’s the un-favorable tides bashing against the sea wall with no where for beachgoers to move except away, and weather that is not guaranteed.

Where was the common sense when this was discussed ? Where was the water-sports input and experience ? If paid expert panel  members had given the correct advice, which was not to pursue the project, it is unlikely that their pay day would have been so big, if at all.

Another job for the Auditor and Comptroller General to investigate a complete waste of the publics tax money.
Before a bucket of cement had been mixed they were warned.

Bailiwick Express.

It covers our shores and doesn’t smell very nice but there’s absolutely nothing we can do about Jersey’s sea lettuce problem according to an expert hired by the States.

http://www.bailiwickexpress.com/jsy/news/island-defeated-sea-lettuce/?t=i#.VFfTi0tk_wI

Boatyboy

Offline Fritz

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Re: Another Fantasy or just a Bad Dream ?
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2014, 01:15:57 AM »
The ,"Sea Lettuce", and ,"Stony Beach", problems only occurred when the reclamation site was constructed. St Aubins Bay was changed from being a bit of a saucer into a sump.
Bugger all to do with nitrates etc. We,ve just messed up the natural cleansing motion of the tide.

"Simples".

Offline danrok

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Re: Another Fantasy or just a Bad Dream ?
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2014, 03:04:40 AM »
The motion of the tide will make no difference to the sea lettuce.

Nitrates are a likely contributing factor.  Our water is polluted with nitrates due to excessive production of potatoes to line the pockets of a few.  Send them the bill to clean-up their mess.

Offline boatyboy

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Re: Another Fantasy or just a Bad Dream ?
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2014, 10:44:49 PM »
danrok wrote:

" The motion of the tide will make no difference to the sea lettuce. "

He or she is of course correct and supported by an experts opinion.

Quote;

It covers our shores and doesn’t smell very nice but there’s absolutely nothing we can do about Jersey’s sea lettuce problem according to an expert hired by the States.

http://www.bailiwickexpress.com/jsy/news/island-defeated-sea-lettuce/#.VInGB0tk_wI

End.

In my small report above, praising Jersey's wonderful beaches and water sport facilities, a negative that I used to describe the awful West Park Pool beach was smelly. It appears that the paid consultant plural or singular did not do their homework mentioning the the sea lettuce problem or a feasible answer to this problem in fact there were no problems mentioned which is very strange.

The waste of £340,000 pounds of taxpayers money may be just a small drop in the Ocean, sorry about the pun, but this just adds to the fact that the West Park Marina lake scheme was just another Fantasy Film idea but more expensive and worse as they were pre - warned before they started work but ignored any suggestions or criticism.

Would this have been the case if they had been forced to fund the scheme themselves, putting their hands in their own pockets, and spending their own
money ?

Boatyboy.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2014, 01:12:43 AM by boatyboy »

Offline Chevalier Blanc

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Re: Another Fantasy or just a Bad Dream ?
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2014, 07:42:02 PM »
What project?