Author Topic: The Electoral Reform Commission  (Read 57656 times)

Offline more

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The Electoral Reform Commission
« on: February 24, 2012, 11:35:42 PM »
Thursdays meeting at St Clements Parish Hall on the 21st of February was very informative with Deputy Le Heriser explaining he’s amendments to the voters of the Parish, along with others who chose to be there, giving as to what the electoral reform commission entails.

It does not bode well for the Democracy of this Island even States Members at the meeting admitted it was not their right as Politicians to sit in or on any Independent Commission on electoral reforms.

Public rights could be in danger of being compromised, this Independent Commission as D Wimberly laid out was not intended to be watered down with any politician being a part of the process or with the possibility of Senator Philip Bailache or any other States member should sit as Chairman.

This could be a possible risk to Democracy as we know it, and possibly yet again a waste of Taxpayers money.

As this is an opinion. It would be interesting for others to have a chance to also share their views and vote accordingly at the Town hall on Wednesday 29th Feb at 7pm.

Offline Dundee

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Re: The Electoral Reform Commission
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2012, 02:49:24 AM »
I totally agree about the democracy side and as such Senator Bailhache stood on a policy of electoral reform and the majority of democratic voters decided with him. Sadly the two bit Deputies have neither the balls or the skills to stand as Senator and the only reason they are fighting this move is that they fear for their positions and not the wishes of the majority of islanders, it is them that are are actually being undemocratic.


Offline man in the street

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Re: The Electoral Reform Commission
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2012, 03:21:06 AM »
 no politians should sit on the commision.
  they had clothier and poo pooed it.
 public rights? do we have any?
  as it is now i feel its a case of , meet the new boss , same as the old boss.

Offline Chevalier Blanc

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Re: The Electoral Reform Commission
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2012, 03:16:16 PM »
Bailhache should not be allowed onto the panel because he wants to do what he wants for himself and the establishment party and not a care about the ordinary people in this Island. Democracy must be the winner and that means the panel is to be made up of non members of the States which was voted on in the last sitting before the new members came into the chamber.

Offline man in the street

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Re: The Electoral Reform Commission
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2012, 04:49:52 PM »
  it would take a.while, but.
 if people put forword   a interest in sitting on the  commission,  the public could  quiz them  on what they want for the island ( not unlike  the hustings ) and vote for the  persons to sit on the panel.
 only  those with  a total lack of conflict of interest would  be allowed on the panel.
 i know  this willnot happen , or the old gard would  dig out so many contenders, the out come would be the same .

Offline Dundee

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Re: The Electoral Reform Commission
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2012, 06:16:03 PM »
  it would take a.while, but.
 if people put forword   a interest in sitting on the  commission,  the public could  quiz them  on what they want for the island ( not unlike  the hustings ) and vote for the  persons to sit on the panel.
 only  those with  a total lack of conflict of interest would  be allowed on the panel.
 i know  this willnot happen , or the old gard would  dig out so many contenders, the out come would be the same .

I think the democratic majority of the public made a perfectly sound decision in electing Senator Bailhache with his mandate for electorial reform. The problem as I see it is not so much the system but the lack of voter engagement and scrutiny from them, and we end up with poor political representatives as a result, the current elected body is worse than the last lot and I never thought that would be possible, and some of the public appear under the illusiion that the new crop are in there to change and improve the system, when in fact they are just on the gravy train at our expense.

Offline Jerry Gosselin

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Re: The Electoral Reform Commission
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2012, 07:33:16 PM »
  it would take a.while, but.
 if people put forword   a interest in sitting on the  commission,  the public could  quiz them  on what they want for the island ( not unlike  the hustings ) and vote for the  persons to sit on the panel.
 only  those with  a total lack of conflict of interest would  be allowed on the panel.
 i know  this willnot happen , or the old gard would  dig out so many contenders, the out come would be the same .

If we ever get back to the original intention to have a commission with no politicians then once again we will have to face the previous conundrum that I highlighted in a long comment to thisisjersey.com last September (extracts quoted below):

Quote
Eventually I found reference to a discussion about the composition of this Commission from 22nd March 2011 which seems to confirm my worst fears- that ordinary Jersey people with a proven interest/ expertise in the subject will be BARRED from membership. Read the following extract from the minutes:

"The view was expressed that due care should be taken to guard against bias in respect of those appointed to serve on the Commission. In this regard, it was noted that the panel which had been appointed to review of the roles of the Crown Officers (R.143/2010 refers) had not included any persons who had previously expressed a public view in respect of the matter and it was felt that this approach could be taken in respect of appointments to the Electoral Commission."

With regard to myself, it would seem, on the face of it, that I could not be considered for membership because, having made previous submissions to the States on the subject of electoral reform, this would presumably constitute having "expressed a public view". In June 2002, I submitted a comprehensive 16-page submission to the Special Committee on the Composition and Election of the States Assembly and in February 2005, I sent an even longer 19-page submission in response to a public consultation on the Public Elections (Jersey) Law 2002. Presumably both of these constitute having a 'bias' because I made recommendations for reform. Having also now read the committee's report dated 7th September, it seems that the Commission will consist of 3 local members, unpaid, one of whom will be the Chairman, and two external members who will be paid at £500 per day plus all flights and accommodation expenses on top.

If the local members cannot have expressed public views on electoral reform before then it is very difficult to see who could be suitable. Presumably even a former States Member of considerable repute could not be considered because it is more than likely he would have been involved in debates about States reform at some point during his time in the States.

Therefore the most likely local candidates are obviously going to be the usual suspects- local members of the business community (K. Keen etc.) who can afford to give up their time for free but who have never bothered enough to express any prior views on the issue of electoral reform, although they probably have such views like the rest of us. To make it seem like it is 'diverse', they will probably include a middle-class woman whom nobody has ever heard of before, but who just happens to be the husband of somebody reasonably prominent in the local community who happens to know many States Members.

How can this appointments procedure possibly result in a recommendation which would solve the problems in our electoral process AND have widespread public support AND convince the States to follow its advice?
« Last Edit: February 26, 2012, 07:36:08 PM by Jerry Gosselin »

Offline newmac

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Re: The Electoral Reform Commission
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2012, 08:35:37 PM »
the current elected body is worse than the last lot and I never thought that would be possible,

It'll be interesting to see how many of the new members will be able to see out there term without asking any questions.

Offline boatyboy

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Re: The Electoral Reform Commission
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2012, 04:25:54 PM »

Why the electorial has become a waste of time.


Quote

But there have been two other two massive changes which have gone almost unnoticed.  There will be no outside experts, either on the Commission itself or sitting as an advisory panel. And the Terms of Reference - which were carefully written so that the Commission would look at all sides of the question and come up with a solution which could command the support of the public - have been dismantled.

How very sad. A Commission planned in good faith has been replaced by something completely different. And not worth working for.

http://st-ouennais.livejournal.com/

Offline Calimachon

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Re: The Electoral Reform Commission
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2012, 07:31:17 PM »
A bland Commission with bland people running it.

They might as well hold their meetings at the zoo and elect three of the Gorillas to make up the numbers.

Cali :)
TOMORROW (Noun) = A mystical land where 99% of all human productivity, motivation an achievement is stored

Offline boatyboy

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Re: The Electoral Reform Commission
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2012, 04:11:00 AM »
So how does the political structure of the Antigua Government work how different is it to Jersey ?

Find out here,

http://www.clgf.org.uk/userfiles/1/files/Antigua%20&%20Barbuda%20local%20government%20profile%202011-12.pdf

There are more informative sites on this subject, however this particular site took me 45 seconds to find maybe the graduates working on the Jersey independence group at the Chief Ministers office who no doubt are excellent at using the internet, could help out Senator Bailhache, but where is the fun in that ?

How about Barbados,

Find out here,

The following Government profile, details the structure of the Barbados Government providing information about parliament, the cabinet, the constitution and the .

It will come up with accurate information like,

Quote:-

Chief of State: Queen Elizabeth II (since Feb.6th 1952).

Governor General: Sir Clifford Straughn Husbands (since June 1st 1996). This person is not elected, but is appointed by The Monarch (Head of State).

Head of Government: The Hon. Freundel Stuart, Q.C. (since May 2010). The Prime Minister is usually the leader of the majority party and is appointed by the Governor-General of Barbados.

The Senate: This is the upper house and consists of seven members who are chosen by the Governor General, 12 by the Prime Minister and two by the Leader of the Opposition.

The House of Assembly: The House of Assembly is the majority party and has 30 members. The House of Assembly is voted for by the public of Barbados every five years. This is currently The Democratic Labour Party. 

http://www.totallybarbados.com/barbados/Business/Government_and_Legal_System/

So

Jersey's electoral committee and support crew, headed by Senator Bailhache are considering visiting exotic Caribbean islands to find out how their Governments are structured of course not putting a hand in their own pocket to pay for anything thats the taxpayers job. The word recession is obviously not written on their expense account, unlike the unfortunate people made redundant or seeing quality of life slowly eroding through inflation, higher taxes and utility bills.

Thanks to Ian for putting this JEP article up for us to read. The JEP forgot to mention it on their daily offering free internet site. Could it be they are feeling a little embarrassed about their star poll topping Senator who is happy spending taxpayers money because he is worth it, and one does not get information second hand from the internet.

Thanks to Ian @

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-4R_vYam9CwY/UAb7f2o2fhI/AAAAAAAAFSc/Wre9VHBsTBc/s1600/img103.jpg

States of Jersey long haul flights are always booked into first class.

BB
« Last Edit: July 19, 2012, 05:11:46 AM by boatyboy »

Offline wakey

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Re: The Electoral Reform Commission
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2012, 07:56:08 PM »
Great fat cats sitting on the gravy train;  1st class of course.

They are so removed from  reality and must think  that the general public is so stupid and gullible.


Offline imacrappaud

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Re: The Electoral Reform Commission
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2012, 11:32:11 PM »
Now, if they had mentioned a free trip to some tropical islands when advertising for people to sit on the "independant" commission I bet they would have had a helluva lot more applicants, or maybe that was already mentioned to a few states members thus encouraging them to get involved ;)

Offline Chevalier Blanc

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Re: The Electoral Reform Commission
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2012, 11:54:19 PM »
That is just it "Gullible"!
Until the people get someone to get them to understand that voting is a MUST!
Only then will we the people get treated in the correct way by which i mean the Islanders come first when it comes to looking after all the people on this Island and noit just the interests of the few.

Offline moot

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Re: The Electoral Reform Commission
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2012, 10:20:38 PM »
I have just heard the Commission singing this song :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaElH0EHjIs