Author Topic: Committee of Inquiry  (Read 5553 times)

Offline iruka

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 474
Committee of Inquiry
« on: March 23, 2011, 02:15:57 PM »
So, now that we seem to be going to have an inquiry, does anyone have thoughts on what it should look into, who it should call as witnesses etc.?

Also, any views on whether or not the power to subpoena will have any enforceability outside the island? For example, if Lenny Harper cocks a snook (again) can he be dragged back to give evidence?

When is it likely to kick off, and how long will it take and cost?


Offline Malachi

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 231
Re: Committee of Inquiry
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2011, 04:16:28 PM »
I do not know how much it will cost, but I would happily offer my services for nothing if I had any services to offer...

Offline Chevalier Blanc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1797
Re: Committee of Inquiry
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2011, 03:54:13 PM »
Completely open!
Let the public find out who the people were who covered up things and did nothing. Every avenue should be explored to get to the full truth and picture.
This includes the Victoria College saga as well. It is funny in away that you usually find that the guilty people are normally the well off and high in society holding high profile jobs. Take for instance the high judges who are the ones that are caught using brothels and doing kinky things.
It needs to be sorted out for once and all so that Jersey can hold it's head up high.

Offline Calimachon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1503
  • Gender: Female
  • http://www.amnesty.org.uk/
Re: Committee of Inquiry
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2011, 08:49:08 PM »
I am happy that the right to have an Inquiry has been won thanks to a few vociferous bloggers and to some brave politicians.

I think the time has come to allow the Jersey Care Leavers Association to take over and hash out the Terms of Reference and who should be called as witnesses.  After all they are the ones that know!

So happy to take a back seat here and watch how things are going on but always ready to come to the defence of the abused should things go awry for them.

I do agree with the ex-Police Chief, Graeme Power (who was appointed the Queen's Medal by the way) that the whole abuse matter has in fact been deflected by the spin doctors regarding the need for an Inquiry and we should get back to the real issues which are not over - finding and charging the perpetrators of the abuse.

Cali  :'(
TOMORROW (Noun) = A mystical land where 99% of all human productivity, motivation an achievement is stored

Offline iruka

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 474
Re: Committee of Inquiry
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2011, 11:32:39 PM »
Interesting perspectives, and what I thought would come out.

Surely the purpose of the inquiry is not to re-hash the criminal investigation, but rather find out why that investigation seemed to be somewhat flawed.

I cannot imagine that this should be the forum for the Care Leavers Association to revisit every single complaint again? Hasn't that been done, and in any event, wouldn't that harm their claims for compensation (which I presume they are pursuing courtesy of mainland lawyers).

Surely the purpose ought to be to establish why the investigation seemingly got out of our control, why the media seemed to be "tuned up" to spin a story of deviance and murder which couldn't be delivered?

Should it seek to identify what political motivations (if any) were behind the approach and (alleged) suppression of allegations previously?

Should it not seek to understand why, despite the hype from Lenny Harper, so few convictions were actually secured, and what role the media played?

Should it look at why the BBC was happy to repeat innuendo and gossip as fact and cause this to be repeated and amplified around the world, causing untold damage?

What about the actual substance of those allegations? Do they stand up to examination or is that why the trials were not as stellar as Lenny predicted?

Why wasn't Lenny forced to come back and finish what he started?

Why did he leave part way through?

What was the Blessed Saint's role and motive in all this?

Or, is it an inquiry into why care services where the way the were in the 1950s? (bit complex that one - "because that was the state of the art then")

As an aside; on the subject of judges in brothels as brought up by Chevalier Blanc - are you forgetting Lillie Langtry who is alleged to have said, "It doesn't matter what you do in the bedroom as long as you don't do it in the street and frighten the horses" (if, of course, that it is legal)?

Just a thought....




Offline Malachi

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 231
Re: Committee of Inquiry
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2011, 02:10:45 AM »
What I would really like to know is whether or not Lenny Harper believed that he had to behave in the way that he did because he thought certain people did not want certain things to be investigated

Or, is it an inquiry into why care services where the way the were in the 1950s? (bit complex that one - "because that was the state of the art then")

I seemed to be one of the few people that was not shocked by the allegations because I do not think anyone should be surprised by really horrible things happening to children in low-visibility care institutions when horrible things (by contemporary standards) were happening to them in high-visibility "care" institutions on a regular basis; the UK only banned corporal punishment in 1987 (source)

But IF any investigation in care services in decades gone by was resisted by the powers-that-be, then I really do not know to think

Although I was born here, I have always hated "Jersey is best / nothing ever bad happens here" parochialism; the Bailiff's "the real scandal is what those horrible newspapers are saying about us" was contemptible

Offline verystandrew

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 132
Re: Committee of Inquiry
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2011, 03:33:43 AM »
Although I was born here, I have always hated "Jersey is best / nothing ever bad happens here" parochialism; the Bailiff's "the real scandal is what those horrible newspapers are saying about us" was contemptible

Amen to that...

VStA
"Of all God's creatures there is only one that cannot be made the slave of the leash. That one is the cat. If man could be crossed with a cat it would improve man, but it would deteriorate the cat." Mark Twain

Offline rico sorda

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1450
  • locked & loaded lets rock rsx
Re: Committee of Inquiry
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2011, 01:10:18 PM »

Although I was born here, I have always hated "Jersey is best / nothing ever bad happens here" parochialism; the Bailiff's "the real scandal is what those horrible newspapers are saying about us" was contemptible
[/quote]

You have it in one. That was the attitude that led to decades of abuse

rs
one ban away from oblivion rsx

ole razzy

  • Guest
Re: Committee of Inquiry
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2011, 03:28:15 PM »
Jumping back a few posts to the many questions posed by Iruka, all of which are perfectly valid, I will say that each point mentioned will open up a raft of counter claims that will require further investigation. If one takes this logic through to its natural conclusion it seems to me that the only way to nail this thing once and for all is to accept right from the outset that the WHOLE THING needs to be investigated from the 1950's right through to ILM and TleS's latest missives. That may take years and will undoubtedly incur considerable costs but until such time as all are allowed to come to the table and give thier opinions, honest or otherwise, this thing will just go on festering in the collective conciousness of the community for many decades to come.

If there was reckless polical brinkmanship we need to know. And likewise if there was false hope given, we also need to know. Only the truth can serve us best, if we are to build a better future for the most vulnerable in our society, and for the collective  image of our community as a whole. And the value of that cannot be counted in a moneraty sense. It goes far deeper than that.


Offline iruka

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 474
Re: Committee of Inquiry
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2011, 01:08:22 AM »
I do believe that there is a balance to be struck.

As Ole Razzy pointed out, this could turn in to Jarndyce and Jarndyce, and should not be allowed to do so.

I do think there are some key issues to pinned down and clarified. I will ponder what I think they are - or rather, how I communicate them, and get back soon  ;)

I believe that the truth is important, but sometimes we need to move on and not spend forever picking old sores through some misguided sense that we can fix the past. We can learn from the past, but I think much of that has already been done.

I leave the comment to a better pen-smith than I:

Jarndyce and Jarndyce drones on. This scarecrow of a suit has, in course of time, become so complicated that no man alive knows what it means. The parties to it understand it least, but it has been observed that no two Chancery lawyers can talk about it for five minutes without coming to a total disagreement as to all the premises. Innumerable children have been born into the cause; innumerable old people have died out of it. Scores of persons have deliriously found themselves made parties in Jarndyce and Jarndyce without knowing how or why; whole families have inherited legendary hatreds with the suit. The little plaintiff or defendant who was promised a new rocking-horse when Jarndyce and Jarndyce should be settled has grown up, possessed himself of a real horse, and trotted away into the other world. Fair wards of court have faded into mothers and grandmothers; a long procession of Chancellors has come in and gone out; the legion of bills in the suit have been transformed into mere bills of mortality; there are not three Jarndyces left upon the earth perhaps since old Tom Jarndyce in despair blew his brains out at a coffee-house in Chancery Lane; but Jarndyce and Jarndyce still drags its dreary length before the court, perennially hopeless.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2011, 01:14:08 AM by iruka »

Offline iruka

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 474
Re: Committee of Inquiry
« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2011, 01:18:54 AM »
Bugger - I keep thinking of something else....

.... and we should not forget, or allow ourselves to be misled, by those who have ulterior motives.

Jarndyce and Jarndyce is a good example.

"Mr. Kenge," said Allan, appearing enlightened all in a moment. "Excuse me, our time presses. Do I understand that the whole estate is found to have been absorbed in costs?" "Hem! I believe so," returned Mr. Kenge. "Mr. Vholes, what do YOU say?" "I believe so," said Mr. Vholes. "And that thus the suit lapses and melts away?" "Probably," returned Mr. Kenge. "Mr. Vholes?" "Probably," said Mr. Vholes.

What a tragedy it would be if the only winners were the "no win, no fee" lawyers of the mainland who have been so diligent in their blogging and the pursuit of "the truth" and "justice" for "the victims".


Offline Fritz

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2648
  • Gender: Male
Re: Committee of Inquiry
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2011, 03:19:20 AM »
"You Couldn,t let it lie, could you".  Vic Reeves,

ole razzy

  • Guest
Re: Committee of Inquiry
« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2011, 04:01:47 AM »
Although I was born here, I have always hated "Jersey is best / nothing ever bad happens here" parochialism; the Bailiff's "the real scandal is what those horrible newspapers are saying about us" was contemptible


You have it in one. That was the attitude that led to decades of abuse

rs

Yeah and whilst not on the same scale of calamity remember the 1204-2004 "800 years of Jersey and the Crown' shindig? The bumber stickers saying 'Pride in Jersey'? Strange to say it now but as soon as I picked up on that I knew it would only be a matter of time before the shit hit the fan. Russel Grant move over. There's a newer slimmer Ole Razzy with crystal balls.

Offline Fritz

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2648
  • Gender: Male
Re: Committee of Inquiry
« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2011, 04:47:10 AM »
 There's a newer slimmer Ole Razzy with crystal balls.



Is that so folk can see you coming?

ole razzy

  • Guest
Re: Committee of Inquiry
« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2011, 05:47:04 AM »
Well at least that wouldn't require a committee of inquiry. A parish hall inquiry maybe. And most certainly a written warning with a £50 fine. Unless of course one knows the centinier. That, as we all know, changes everything.