Author Topic: Bailiff tells Britain to butt out  (Read 8987 times)

Res Nullius

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Re: Bailiff tells Britain to butt out
« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2008, 07:21:15 PM »
Sir Philip Bailhache, said that the independence of the court from political interference was one of the pillars of democracy.


What does that say about his dual role?

Offline Adrian

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Re: Bailiff tells Britain to butt out
« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2008, 07:27:58 PM »
Wasn't phil a deputy in the states before he was crown officer, someone must be able to spill the beans on what deputy phil was like?

Offline Al

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Re: Bailiff tells Britain to butt out
« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2008, 09:15:48 PM »
Haven't been able to post on here much recently - had my own struggles with the incompetence of Social Services to preoccupy me - but I'm surprised that (with the depth of research that goes into some posts on here) no-one has mentioned this http://us.ft.com/ftgateway/superpage.ft?news_id=fto090320081745438461&page=1 from nearly a fortnight ago - well, the press coverage was two weeks ago tho' the ruling dates from August. The legal complexities of the judgement are covered here http://www.bedellcristin.com/Newspagetitle/ImportantJudgement and, under the headline 'Landmark Jersey ruling may help wealthy avoid big payouts', it is also featured here http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23550977-details/Landmark+Jersey+ruling+may+help+wealthy+avoid+big+payouts/article.do.
Tho' the coverage makes much of the fact that that this specific case was concerned with a long-running and bitter divorce settlement, and refers to the fact that others in the same situation could use Jersey or similar jurisdictions to avoid judgements made against them in a UK court, the Royal Court ruling is simply concerned with local law concerning the variation or alteration of a Jersey trust - it seems to go much further than establishing groundrules for dispersal of assets following a divorce and looks towards setting a benchmark limiting  or preventing 'interference' by the UK in local financial and judicial matters. In the context of repeated references by the Bailiff and Attorney-General to developing 'independence' and refusing to allow 'interference' in local judicial affairs this must surely be seen as establishing a precedent, the equivalent of raising two fingers to the UK.

(But, there's always a positive - just think of the benefits this could bring the island. All those wealthy businesspeople, some on their third or fourth partner, concerned that they may lose half of their wealth if their marriage failed... All it would take would be a mailshot to alert these people to the benefits of the appropriate financial arrangements over here... All the money Jersey Finance have spent on trips to China and India and they could be getting a slice of this business just by scouring the wedding announcements of the Tatler, the Spectator and the Telegraph and sending out a glossy leaflet extolling the benefits of financial planning in Jersey should the upcoming marriage go horribly wrong and the partner try to take half of your money!)

« Last Edit: September 17, 2008, 09:26:30 AM by Al »

Offline danrok

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Re: Bailiff tells Britain to butt out
« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2008, 09:53:13 PM »
I do get the impression that Jersey laws are a bit unusual, when it comes to marriage and divorce.

Somehow Kevin Leach was able to keep hold of his house when he went bankrupt, by transferring it to his wife.  I can't see that trick working in the UK!

Jason the Maverick

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Re: Bailiff tells Britain to butt out
« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2008, 01:22:28 AM »
It is even making me wonder about Stuart's accusations now.

A speech like that is hardly going to comfort a person who is coming to terms with abuse and wants justice is it?

Online boatyboy

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Re: Bailiff tells Britain to butt out
« Reply #20 on: September 17, 2008, 01:47:54 PM »
During April of 2007 a English Judge was brought into the island, to preside over the case of an accountant accused of money laundering. Justice Nice stayed at the Hotel L’Horizon in St. Brelades Bay, until the trial was concluded.

Boatyboy.

Res Nullius

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Re: Bailiff tells Britain to butt out
« Reply #21 on: September 17, 2008, 02:17:12 PM »
During April of 2007 a English Judge was brought into the island, to preside over the case of an accountant accused of money laundering. Justice Nice stayed at the Hotel L’Horizon in St. Brelades Bay, until the trial was concluded.

Boatyboy.

All the court of appeal judges are English judges as are many of the commissioners such as Nice to whom you refer.  All are appointed by the bailiff.

Furthermore, whilst the Baihaches' don't want English judges to have a say in Jersey court proceedings, if my memory serves me right, William Bailhache went running to the Privy Council a couple of years ago to get a Jersey court judgment overturned in the Holley murder/manslaughter case.  He succeeded i think.

It appears that the over-riding principle is that the Bailhaches will accept English interference in the Jersey courts only when it suits them.

Offline Adrian

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Re: Bailiff tells Britain to butt out
« Reply #22 on: September 17, 2008, 02:23:50 PM »
All the court of appeal judges are English judges as are many of the commissioners such as Nice to whom you refer.  All are appointed by the bailiff.

Furthermore, whilst the Baihaches' don't want English judges to have a say in Jersey court proceedings, if my memory serves me right, William Bailhache went running to the Privy Council a couple of years ago to get a Jersey court judgment overturned in the Holley murder/manslaughter case.  He succeeded i think.

It appears that the over-riding principle is that the Bailhaches will accept English interference in the Jersey courts only when it suits them.

So have the Bailhaches set a precedent then for English judges in Jersey courts?

Res Nullius

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Re: Bailiff tells Britain to butt out
« Reply #23 on: September 17, 2008, 02:37:30 PM »
No idea.  I am no lawyer but from a laymans view it does appear that they can have their cake and eat it.

Offline Jersey Spud

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Re: Bailiff tells Britain to butt out
« Reply #24 on: September 17, 2008, 02:50:24 PM »
No idea.  I am no lawyer but from a laymans view it does appear that they can have their cake and eat it.

That, I would imagine, is why laymen are laymen, and lawyers spend years studying such things.

Online Fritz

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Re: Bailiff tells Britain to butt out
« Reply #25 on: September 17, 2008, 07:08:00 PM »
I do get the impression that Jersey laws are a bit unusual, when it comes to marriage and divorce.

Somehow Kevin Leach was able to keep hold of his house when he went bankrupt, by transferring it to his wife.  I can't see that trick working in the UK!


He kept hold of a helluva lot more than his house.

Online boatyboy

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Re: Bailiff tells Britain to butt out
« Reply #26 on: September 18, 2008, 12:18:59 AM »

Sorry Res Nullius just read your post again.

All the court of appeal judges are English judges as are many of the commissioners such as Nice to whom you refer.  All are appointed by the bailiff.


Fine ok, I didn't know that, what is interesting about Justice Nice is that he was not an appeal judge ( if that is what you meant).  Judge Tucker ( also from the UK) a very old senior citizen type chap started trying the case, and Judge Nice took over. This was not an appeal but full blown trial, whereby a sentence was handed down. Maybe the Bailiff was on holiday, it does show outside hired help has been brought in though.

Boatyboy.

Offline Jersey Spud

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Re: Bailiff tells Britain to butt out
« Reply #27 on: September 18, 2008, 08:54:37 AM »
Of course "Hired" help can be brought in, but it is by invitation. Not foisted on us. Thats the issue people need to get their heads around. No country wants to be told what to do by another, and rather than people clamouring rabidly for intervention from the UK, we should be saying "This is exactly the time when we need to consider what we've done in other past cases and, to ensure impartiality, invite a UK judge to sit on any trial."

Don't people understand diplomacy anymore? I feel it is sadly lacking in many politicians / political activists nowadays. 

Offline danrok

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Re: Bailiff tells Britain to butt out
« Reply #28 on: September 18, 2008, 10:05:55 AM »
Jersey is not a country, however.  Our small size being a part of the problem here.  The fact that so many people in authority are well known to each other, a bit too chummy.

Offline Jersey Spud

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Re: Bailiff tells Britain to butt out
« Reply #29 on: September 18, 2008, 10:26:29 AM »
Jersey is not a country, however.  Our small size being a part of the problem here.  The fact that so many people in authority are well known to each other, a bit too chummy.

No, you're right. Its a bailliwick with it's own government. My point was that there are ways and means of achieving things without the agro. Simple as that.