Sean Power - States Member!

[Dylan]

No. 53 less Stuart = 52.

yep but the cm is no cop so that must make 51?

[David Rotherham]

Two big differences to allow for, when comparing with the UK. The amount of work in preparing laws and policies depends on their content, not the number of people they apply to, so, as we have about as many laws as them, we are effectively working our legislators 13 times as hard. Moreover, the States are the ultimate unitary authority, acting as a municipal borough council and a county council, as well as a parliament. Count in the councillors, too, in your mainland equivalent, and they will have at least as many representatives.

[Sean Power]

David,

I do think that if the size of the Assembly were to be reduced by say, five Members, it would set a powerful message to the public service that this should be reduced pro rata.  I have no scientific way of justifying this, except to say it would be about a 10% reduction in the size of the Assembly. Senator Ozouf needs to look at this area. He also needs to look at core services that can be outsourced.  By this I do not] mean a complex tender privatisation process.  I mean asking States employees who run certain States Services as to they would like to be self-employed and encouraging States employees to become self-employed by forming small business firms of 1-5 employees.

Therefore, States Members should show by example.  I certainly think St. Brelade could be represented by three States members.  If we then lost one States Member in St. Helier and St. Saviour, we only need to find two more !

States Members should also be looking for ways to change the machinery of government for the better. We need to innovate, change, take risk and make States employemnt a stepping stone to self-employment in SPECIFIC areas.

Sean

I think that is easily achievable.

I wait for the roadblocks and opposition.

Sean

[David Rotherham]

Outsourcing may reduce the nominal size of the public sector, but it is not really cheaper, more efficient or better value, except in the case of resources that are only occasionally required by government departments, and can be hired out to other parties between times, such as cranes.
Any profit-making business has to cost more than a break-even public service to do the same job, by at least the profit margin for the shareholders. Then, duplication of management resources between the commisssioning department, who must ensure that the outsource contractor performs, and the contractors own management actually getting the job done adds a further layer of inefficiency.
Occasionally, an obsolete government function can be allowed to disappear altogether. However, for things that still should be done, it is better to do them  directly, than make them into boondoggles the commercial sector can milk the public purse for.

[Dundee]

There is something to be said for having everyone under the same umbrella of responsibility, having seen first hand what outsourcing can do I am totally opposed to it because of the lack of accountability, you may save some money by getting the job done on the cheap, but often these jobs are not satisfactory and in the long term cost the taxpayer more, this may of course suit politicians who themselves are generally in it for the short term and will often jump from one department to another leaving someone else to come in and pick the pieces up.

We are now paying more tax through gst yet I see no improvement on anything that pertains to my standard of living if anything it is getting worse.

[rogueelement]

What you , Dundee and David appear to me missing ,is that States Employees do not just cost the wages for any particular job, they also cost additional expense insofar as they must be nurtured from cradle to grave , have the obligatory 20 days sick leave, need additional property to house themselves and their equipment ,need pensions, need managers, need HR resources etcetcetc. So outsourcing a particular job may be more expensive in a direct comparison with States labour costs versus private enterprise quote but that is where the States liability ends, work done zero cost thereafter . In the States, work done , continuous costs thereafter.,6 men in high viz jackets watching one poor sod do the work.

[David Rotherham]

No, Spartacus, what you are missing is that the outsource contractor has to price providing all the same things itself into the fee, and then put its mark-up on top.

[Fritz]

"Outsource Contractors", are more efficient and therefore make profit. No ,"Mark up", required.

[jackoneill]

"Outsource Contractors", are more efficient and therefore make profit. No ,"Mark up", required.

Someone give this fool a basic rundown of Capitalism, I have no energy today...

Jack.

[Fritz]

Good grief.
We have an," Economics expert", who is exhausted after trying to figure out which phone company in a 9x4 island offers the best contract.

Nuff said.

[David Rotherham]

Fritz, if you don't even get how profit comes out of mark-up, then you should not be sarcastic in your use of the term "Economic Expert". And phone companies are notorious for offering hard-to-analyse packages that even professional consumer affairs experts, like Which? magazine,  have difficulty in comparing and advising on.

[Deputy Dawg]

I was going to keep quiet until war boy decided that capitalism due to the nature of the fact that it makes a profit, will cost more than states who employ twice as many people in order to do a job of any size then sub contract out to the capitalists and get an "expert" in to tell them what to do. Take a look at our marina for a start.

But look at the costs. Capitalists will charge a fixed amount which will be tailored to win the quote while making some profit in order to still be employed and market forces will ensure that the quote is reasonable. States will submit a quote, multiply it by three of four over the course of the work, have ten times as many people doing twelve times less work and as Fritz and Sparty have rightly said, once the job is complete, we will still be paying them out of taxes to be employed in their position and then pay them during retirement, again out of taxes that you and I have to pay (at least most of us).

Read up on capitalism, it will explain that it has been the major force in industrialisation and growth, not just in economic terms, but also in health, education and general wellbeing of whole nations. Our lives would be a sorry state without it, like it or not. Of course there are variants on capitalism which have historically not been as good for the population, but you will find that in all areas of life such as Marxism, Liberalism, and even our current semi fuedal states.

Outsourcing contractors would not be a viable alternative for millions of companies if it actually cost more than their existing set up, but outsourcing is massive for one very important reason. It cost LESS and when you factor in the cost of keeping states employees employed once they have completed a job and are busy sitting in their offices looking out of windows or leaning on their spades watching someone else dig, then it saves an absolute mint. Couple this with the fact that any half decent project manager will ensure that late delivery or poor workmanship will be covered in the contract with costs to the states and there is really no reason to keep half of our states employees in their positions.

Of course, states employees will be quickly on here to try to rubbish that, but you would never expect the turkeys to vote for Christmas would you?

[rogueelement]

For further reading I suggest  " the berlin wall and my part in its downfall" Spike Miligan

The Soviet model which was to be fair an enhanced version of the SOJ failed. It failed quite spectacularly. The Jersey model , following the "best" of all practices from wherever in the world they can find a practice which is both cloying, unnecessary and not fit for our particular purpose ,will inevitably collapse as well since it is not possible for the State to simply create money to pay the entire workforce of the Island decent wages and superlative pensions.
Jersey is in my very humble opinion, the nearest thing on this Earth to a corrupt ,bankrupt ,Eastern Bloc relic.
Things cannot continue the way they are , pension funds drying up, private pension funds drying up , black holes in the tax take .
The State needs to be removed from just about every sector it has its filthy fingers dug into and be replaced by capitalist entrepreneurs. This will of course as we have seen from the Russian model , involve a great deal of pain and hardship for the populace whilst the new Oligarchs establish themselves. As usual I am willing to offer my services as a benign dictator to mediate between warring factions and to hand out lucrative contracts to my business associates. If you think that is an awful plan , what do you think is happening right now?
To be fair to Phillo , he is not doing too bad a job as a benign dictator ,the problem as I see it is that he is not me . 

[Dylan]

Stop pouting Sparty! It's a good job Philip is not you as you would have something real to grumble about, especially where the grapes of wrath are concerned! Now I suggest you get your mafiesto together and publish it because I'm gonna vote for you as a real act of mercy.

I think that the Island is in need of someone to lead it, someone with personal vision, someone with connections and an already set-up organisation of friends and contacts. Someone who is not frightened to say no, or yes, as the case may be, someone who will, if the opportunity requires it, shaft our little nation sideways properly, because however much our current incumbents try, they do not really seem to get it right do they?

VOTE FOR SPARTACUS!

(btw what colour do you want your rosette?)

[Chevalier Blanc]

Private companies never have the same commitment as States Workers.  They will only do what they have priced for and nothing else! Where as a States worker if they see something that needs doing other than what they were sent to do will do it.
Also private company will cut wages to bear minimum meaning less tax coming in, more SS money to give out and less employed. All core services need to be held by the States and their workers because i have seen what happens otherwise.