The Continued Erosion of Democracy in Jersey?

[boatyboy]

You seem to be missing the point completely Dundee.

Firstly anyone who wishes to be on any committee should not vote for them selves to be put on said committee.

This is about the electoral make up of the States and thus it is ridiculous to have politicians doing the job. Senator Bailhache has already stated openly that there will be no discussion on the Constables being  removed. That may be his opinion but certainly not others. An  Independent panel being the key here and the way forward.

Lets put it another way.

Are you happy for a dictatorship to be thrust upon you, because the choices will be limited to politicians preferences rather than what is good and fair for democracy as  the old school try desperately to cling on to power.

BB

[Dundee]

Where have you been Batty boy, Senator Bailhache stood on a platform for electoral reform and as such he won the Senatorial elections, thus giving him the strongest democratic mandate that one can obtain. This should allow him to carry out his reforms that the majority of islanders appear to want. That we have some Deputies with vested interests crying foul is of course not really of any great value as they have had previous terms to sort this out and achieved very little.

Not sure how an independent body would achieve much more than someone with the majority of the island behind them, it would only cost a great deal and like Clothier achieve little, time will tell if Senator Bailhache has the skill to get the much needed reforms through, I really hope so.

[boatyboy]

I went to the some of the hustings Dundee and heard Senator Bailhache speak and spoke well he certainly did.

However he did not agree that politicians lie, having spend his life in truthfulness he told us. ( Yet he sat and listened to many ) He also stood on reforming the states and most of us agree with him.

As we all know Senator Bailhache was poll topping and good for him that is democracy in action.

Poll topping the last time I looked, did not mean dictatorship or any right over another politician in the States when it is one vote per person.

Frank Walker won in St Mary’s with just over 300 votes, Stuart Syvret poll topping yet again with several thousand and who became the first chief minister of Jersey  Frank Walker.

Many members were voted into the states on a raft of personal views and aspirations, not just one, including Senator Bailhache who is seriously conflicted to carry out a review of the States of which he is a member.

Senator Bailhache at the hustings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zuPS7uXIjY&feature=endscreen&NR=1

BB

[Dundee]

I went to the some of the hustings Dundee and heard Senator Bailhache speak and spoke well he certainly did.

However he did not agree that politicians lie, having spend his life in truthfulness he told us. ( Yet he sat and listened to many ) He also stood on reforming the states and most of us agree with him.

As we all know Senator Bailhache was poll topping and good for him that is democracy in action.

Poll topping the last time I looked, did not mean dictatorship or any right over another politician in the States when it is one vote per person.

Frank Walker won in St Mary’s with just over 300 votes, Stuart Syvret poll topping yet again with several thousand and who became the first chief minister of Jersey  Frank Walker.

Many members were voted into the states on a raft of personal views and aspirations, not just one, including Senator Bailhache who is seriously conflicted to carry out a review of the States of which he is a member.

Senator Bailhache at the hustings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zuPS7uXIjY&feature=endscreen&NR=1

BB

How is he seriously conflicted? He is very unlikely to benefit from any reform, and I would say that he has the experience and knowledge on the matter probably second to none, His motive being the disatisfaction that many of us share that the current polictical system is not fit for purpose and needs changing. Your full of negative criticisms all the time not sure why your concerned about someone attempting to improve a system that you yourself are not happy with.

[Calimachon]

Oh Dundee!  He is attempting to keep the gang of crocodiles who run this sceptic isle in top jobs and positions of political power by ensuring none of the plebs get a say - by engineering the political model for  centuries to come.  We are moving fast back into the dark ages.

Are you a crocodile Dundee?  Even crocodiles get the government they deserve! 

Saltwiter crocodiles generally spend the tropical wet season lieing in wait for prey, in freshwater swamps and rivers, moving downstream to estuaries in the dry season (or sometimes to their moorings in the Med travelling far out to sea.)   Crocodiles compete fiercely with each other for territory, with dominant males in particular occupying the most eligible stretches of freshwater creeks and streams. Junior less politically powerful crocodiles who see a need for reform are thus forced into the more marginal river systems (or even imprisoned) and sometimes even forced out into the ocean.

If Jersey suffers from an explosive population burst of crocodiles - the island as we know it today, or as we knew it yesterday, will be finished.

The 'benefit' will not be his but will be nepotistic.

 


 

[Dundee]

The current government sucks, I am all for a change.

[rico sorda]

Another excellent blog posting from Deputy Pitman

http://thebaldtruthjersey.blogspot.com/2012/01/my-shonas-questions-for-january-17th.html

rs

[boatyboy]

Had an interesting  short chat with a deputy yesterday and he agreed that politicians may make mistakes but that an honest and open politician has nothing to fear.

We both agreed that people ( the public ) appreciate an honest politician with integrity.

Three words, honesty integrity and transparency is a platform that all politicians should share.

The problem clearly in the case that Deputy Pitman ( not the politician I spoke with ) is seeking to highlight in the States assembly, is that once elected words uttered and their meanings at election time are quickly forgotten.

We are sometimes here to remind and highlight, did Senator Bailhache really cast the deciding vote to get himself elected to the electoral reform committee ? This cannot be true !

BB

 

[Chevalier Blanc]

That would not surprise me if he was the deciding vote. He thinks he can do anything he wants to and nobody can do nothing about it. Just think the Reg story. He should have been pulled over the coals for that but no things just carried on as normal.
Ask yourself  who will bring him to book, he is the Don of the establishment party.

[rico sorda]

Its good to know that some of our younger generation are more clued up than some of our older generation when it comes to electoral commission

http://sammezec.blogspot.com/2012/01/hidden-agenda-of-establishment-on.html

[Jerry Gosselin]

Its good to know that some of our younger generation are more clued up than some of our older generation when it comes to electoral commission

http://sammezec.blogspot.com/2012/01/hidden-agenda-of-establishment-on.html

Anyone who can the use the phrases "passionate Socialist" and "member of the Labour Party" in the same sentence has obviously still got a lot of growing up to do, politically at least!  However, looking at it on another level, I understand why he would be hedging his bets by doing a blog on Jersey politics whilst apparently studying to be a lawyer in the UK: it would take years for someone of that age to get on the approved Labour shortlist (and he would have to drop the socialist bit for starters and then change gender to give himself any realistic chance!) but as an alternative, he could complete his studies, get back here for summer 2014, get those at whom he is aiming his blog to sign his nomination paper and stand about a 50-50 chance* of getting elected and starting a political career on £45k minimum by the end of that year. He's even using all the right buzzwords copied and pasted from similar blogs ('Establishment politicians'/ 'complicity of Jerseys [sic] media'). So young and yet it's the same old, same old...

Sadly, with jobs so hard to come by, an increasing number of local youngsters are looking at the examples of our first true career politicians [Macon and Vallois] and starting to realise the potential pecuniary advantages of politics: today I heard a schoolgirl member of the Youth Assembly on BBC Radio Jersey declaring that she wanted to pursue a "career" in Jersey politics. Use of that word in conjunction with politics totally repulses me as it is irreconcilable with everything I stand for and makes me truly despair for the future of political representation in Jersey.   

Now back to the subject of this thread: the advertisement for three stool pigeons to validate the actions of a deeply compromised Electoral Commission has been published:

http://www.statesassembly.gov.je/SiteCollectionDocuments/States%20Assembly/Info%20sheet%20for%20Electoral%20Commission.pdf

Nobody who genuinely wants reform of the States Assembly would obviously go anywhere near this now, but I just wanted to start a bit of idle speculation as to who might have been given the 'green light'  to apply, if you get my gist.

Here is one viewpoint: we know that an astonishingly high number of States Members representing St Helier (6 out of 11- Baker, Bryans, Hilton, Green, Rondel and Crowcroft) and St Clement (2 out of 3- Norman and Pinel) voted with the Bailhache-controlled PPC last week and that these are the two parishes that stand to lose the most from a compromised Commission. Therefore one would have thought it reasonable to see a serving or former member of either the St Helier or St Clement honorary systems popping up on the commission as a little thank you...

When the three 'independent'  members are announced, it will also be intriguing to see if any of their names have appeared in the past on the nomination papers of candidates standing for the States, and if so, which candidates they were supporting. It would seem that there is nothing in the job description to prevent the proposers of States Members/candidates being appointed as Electoral Commission members (provided they don't have a "pre-determined view on the most appropriate reform proposals"), so I would not be at all surprised to see some noted political cronies making it through to the finishing line. Maybe that girl from the Youth Assembly on the radio today ought to apply...

* Provided Bailhache doesn't get rid of the current St Helier constituencies of course!

[boatyboy]

Maybe this will help to understand the integrity of Senator Bailhache and some of his supporters, or to put it another way, how to hold on to power by any means possible and using brainless subservient lackeys can be helpful.

Quote.

Luckily, however, our Establishment Party really are even more lacking in judgement and commonsense than most of us could ever imagine. Actually, I am probably being far too kind. They really must be plain daft! Why? Just consider the two politicians put forward to join Senator Philip Bailhache on this allegedly ‘independent thinking and fully open to the evidence’ body that we are meant to entrust with reforming our government for the 21st Century:

Constable Juliette Gallichan of St. Mary.

Deputy James Baker of St. Helier.

http://thebaldtruthjersey.blogspot.com.au/

BB

[rico sorda]

You can read the erosion right here

http://ricosorda.blogspot.com/

What these people did is truly shocking

rs

[Jerry Gosselin]

Former Deputy Daniel Wimberley urges people to boycott the Electoral Commission:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-jersey-17436545

I agree with him- it's the only sensible option for reformists to take.

Another thing that concerns me is the legal framework surrounding this proposed referendum, which is set to happen in only 15 months time. The existing legislation which enables referendums to take place in Jersey doesn't even mention what happens if the turnout falls below a certain minimum threshold. Further legislation will have to be passed by the house next year specifically to enable the vote on the Commission's proposals to take place. Unless such a clause was included in that future legislation to specify a minimum level of voter participation, or even a minimum threshold of 'Yes' votes (for example 60% of votes in favour), then it would seem that the result would be regarded as valid even if the proposals were approved by, say, a tiny margin of 51% to 49%, with only 20% of the electorate bothering to vote. That cannot be right or fair.

I suspect that the real reason why there won't be any reference to minimum thresholds having to be satisfied is because the executive probably knows that the result of any referendum under current Jersey legislation is not binding on the States in the first place. Therefore, if the majority of States Members decide not to implement the result of a valid referendum, however convincing that result might have been, then they are totally at liberty to do that.

I think it is highly likely that the turnout for next year's referendum will fall significantly below 50%, particularly if there is no real option on the ballot paper that true reformists would be attracted to vote for, in which case many people like myself will either boycott the poll or spoil their papers as a protest. Therefore, if the Electoral Commission's proposals gain an absolute majority (whether 51% or 99% in favour) I suspect that those States Members who originally opposed the Bailhache-led Commission will simply refuse to accept the result on the basis of the very low turnout... and it will then be hotly contested all over again on the floor of the House. If, as is likely, the Commission's proposals are then finally approved by the House by a wafer-thin majority, with the Constables' Block Vote proving decisive to keep themselves in the States whilst urban deputies see their seats abolished, the level of popular resentment against Jersey's bent and outdated system of political representation will totally dwarf anything that we've witnessed up to now...

[boatyboy]

Another first for VFC

http://voiceforchildren.blogspot.com/2012/03/democracy-terrorists.html

Democracy Terrorists

The truth about Senator Bailhache not being transparent, not prepared to debate in public and how this looks to the outside world.

Are the Bailhache brothers inviting the UK Government to take over and govern Jersey and bring back democracy. The hijacking of the electoral commission explained and simplified by Daniel Wimberley  ?

If you voted for Senator Bailhache did you actually vote for these tactics ? or did you expect honesty, transparency, integrity and democracy ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oM2qNWJepig&feature=youtu.be

Boatyboy