Author Topic: The Continued Erosion of Democracy in Jersey?  (Read 1432 times)

Offline rico sorda

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The Continued Erosion of Democracy in Jersey?
« on: January 07, 2012, 01:51:56 PM »
The Electoral Commission

PPC yesterday voted 4 to 2 in favour  of changing the rules on the proposed Electoral Commission to allow politicians to take part.

This goes against the proposition brought by former Deputy Daniel Wimberley and passed in the States that the commission should be independent.

The main aim in all of this is to get Senator Bailhache to chair it. You could not get a more conflicted man if you tried. He wants the constables to stay etc etc

2012

And still the same old Sh*t

rs
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Offline boatyboy

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Re: The Continued Erosion of Democracy in Jersey?
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2012, 02:05:47 PM »
                   
So let us see.

If we want to change how the buses run have the bus operators sit on the panel. If you want changes in building industry get a lot of builders to sit on the committee.

If you want a better more efficient and accountable way to do business in the States have politicians sitting on the committee.

The only saving grace to this conflict of hypocritical nonsense, is that the States as whole can go against any suggestions from a clearly conflicted group,  after all four members the PPI voted for this shambles not the States as a whole. Let us see the minutes and voting record.

BB

Offline man in the street

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Re: The Continued Erosion of Democracy in Jersey?
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2012, 02:13:54 PM »
 when  the summer comes and the carboots are back on ,  i may find  a nicely bound copy of the  clothier report , to complement  my collection  of  goverment  reports and surveys .
 the erosion of democracy  is global.
 apparently  obama  signed a  document on new years day that will make protesters in the usa , terrorists ,  in the same class as  bin laden and co.
 and allow indeffinate dettention  without legal  representation.
 

Offline boatyboy

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Re: The Continued Erosion of Democracy in Jersey?
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2012, 02:50:34 PM »


Clothier Report.

Review Panel on the Machinery
of Government in Jersey

Membership

Sir Cecil Clothier, KCB, QC

Sir Kenneth Bloomfield, KCB

Professor Michael Clarke, CBE DL

Mr. John Henwood, MBE

Dr. John Kelleher

Mr. David Le Quesne

Mrs. Anne Perchard

Mr. Colin Powell, OBE

Sir Maurice Shock

http://www.gov.je/SiteCollectionDocuments/Government%20and%20administration/ID%20ClothierReport%20100331%20CC.pdf

With compliments.

bb

Online Jerry Gosselin

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Re: The Continued Erosion of Democracy in Jersey?
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2012, 02:57:20 PM »
It is a disgrace about these changes to the Electoral Commission. As I pointed out in my post of 14th December, the estimated cost of the Commission is £207,000, of which £60,000 is set aside for the fees of the two external members and another £20,000 for their travel and accommodation. Obviously there would be no point in having these two experts now because unless their advice happened to correspond with the aims of Sir Philip, the other three members (two of them presumably being carefully-appointed allies of Sir Philip) simply wouldn't follow it.

Possibly we would end up with two different options being put to the islanders in a referendum- the experts' minority recommendation versus the majority's. In my opinion, a Bailhache Commission would only allow a choice of recommendations if the Bailhache one looked good alongside the experts' one. For example, if Sir Philip was smart, he would engineer a situation whereby his recommendations were pitched against, for example, a Clothier-style recommendation to switch to an all-Deputy house. This would split the reformist vote because we've already had a decade to act on the Clothier reforms but clearly there is no decisive political mandate for that, so if that option was pitched against a conservative Bailhache proposal to keep the Constables and substitute some of the urban Deputies' seats with islandwide Senators (thereby wooing the anti-Pitmans/Southern vote), the latter conservative option might win.

Put simply, the Electoral Commission should now be scrapped. Another advantage for the anti-reformists (of whom I count Bailhache as one) of having a sham Commission going through the motions for the next few years is that it will prevent the newly-elected Assembly from having any opportunity of its own to debate States reform until after the referendum- and then they will be placed under huge pressure to approve whatever recommendation polled most amongst voters, even if that is clearly not the right solution.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2012, 03:03:20 PM by Jerry Gosselin »

Online Dundee

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Re: The Continued Erosion of Democracy in Jersey?
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2012, 03:04:13 PM »
Senator Bailhache stood on an political reform policy and the electorate were supportive of this gauging the election results, unfortunately he did not become Chief Minister. The problems in the past have stemmed from inept and corrupt people being involved, sadly this continues when you now see some of the various panel members who have not the slightest clue or experience on how to manage anything sucessfully.

Online Jerry Gosselin

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Re: The Continued Erosion of Democracy in Jersey?
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2012, 03:27:55 PM »
What political reform policy? I actually voted for Bailhache in spite of his intentions in this regard, mainly to thwart other candidates whom I liked even less (a traditional voting tactic amongst a disillusioned Jersey electorate), but also because I was stupid enough to believe that no States Member whom I voted for would actually have any say in electoral reform until after an independently-appointed Commission had made its own recommendations and put them to an island vote. Obviously my faith in the rule book proved to be misplaced.

The only thing I can deduce for sure about Mr Bailhache's intentions is that he would never act against the interests of either the Constables or the rural Deputies (he is a Grouville loyalist), so their influence on political power would not diminish. Yet he is apparently also in favour of reducing the number of Assembly seats down to 42'ish (from memory). We have to presume that, having been elected as a Senator, he would not act to abolish his own seat or he would have said so. Therefore, if the proposed abolition of a further 9'ish seats can't come from the Constables, can't come from the rural Deputies and can't come from the Senators, then there is only one other place it can come from, which would be the urban Deputies.

This would be a travesty because, as my own figures (based on the 2011 Census) show below, St Clement and St Helier in particular urgently need more seats in the Assembly- not less- to correct the current population imbalance. The same situation in the UK would be automatically dealt with by one of the four permanent Boundary Commissions and the UK politicians would not be able to interfere with their recommendations.

Number of Islanders per parish representative (Deputies and Constables):

1: St Clement = 3,073
2: St Helier = 3,047

3: St Brelade = 2,642
4: St Peter = 2,501
5: Grouville = 2,433
6: St Saviour = 2,263

7: St Ouen = 2,048
8: St Martin = 1,881
9: St Lawrence = 1,806
10: Trinity = 1,578
11: St John = 1,455
12: St Mary = 876
 
http://planetjersey.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,3519.msg53543.html#msg53543
« Last Edit: January 07, 2012, 03:39:17 PM by Jerry Gosselin »

Online Dundee

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Re: The Continued Erosion of Democracy in Jersey?
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2012, 04:10:05 PM »
http://www.philipbailhache.je/my-manifesto/

I should imagine Senator Bailahache would like to see the removal of some of the Deputy seats by removing the extra positions in the more populated parishes, I have two Deputies in St Lawrence and their as they are useless, I have no objection in just having one Deputy, it would at least be a saving, and we might get an election next time.

Online Calimachon

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Re: The Continued Erosion of Democracy in Jersey?
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2012, 05:18:17 PM »
                   
So let us see.

If we want to change how the buses run have the bus operators sit on the panel. If you want changes in building industry get a lot of builders to sit on the committee.

If you want a better more efficient and accountable way to do business in the States have politicians sitting on the committee.


BB

Who would you suggest should sit on the Committee if we want to change how the prisons are run?  Prisoners?

Cali ;)
"Life gives to all the choice. You can satisfy yourself with mediocrity if you wish. You can be common, ordinary, dull, colorless, or you can channel your life so that it will be clean,vibrant, progressive, useful, colorful, rich". Spencer W. Kimball (Calimachon is not a Mormon nor is she in any shape or form religious but she thinks this applies to all humans and more so to a Humanist!  :)

Offline boatyboy

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Re: The Continued Erosion of Democracy in Jersey?
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2012, 05:42:07 PM »

Sorry Cali my sense of humour,

I thought the sentence starting with ..............The only saving grace to this conflict of hypocritical nonsense,

Sort of made it clear.

bb

Online Calimachon

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Re: The Continued Erosion of Democracy in Jersey?
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2012, 05:54:44 PM »
Sorry Cali my sense of humour,

I thought the sentence starting with ..............The only saving grace to this conflict of hypocritical nonsense,

Sort of made it clear.

bb

Yes it made it perfectly clear and I was only augmenting your sense of humour.  :)  I have a dry sense of humour not always easy to get that over in a thread!

Cali :)
"Life gives to all the choice. You can satisfy yourself with mediocrity if you wish. You can be common, ordinary, dull, colorless, or you can channel your life so that it will be clean,vibrant, progressive, useful, colorful, rich". Spencer W. Kimball (Calimachon is not a Mormon nor is she in any shape or form religious but she thinks this applies to all humans and more so to a Humanist!  :)

Offline Chevalier Blanc

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Re: The Continued Erosion of Democracy in Jersey?
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2012, 01:08:37 PM »
A very good point was made the other day. The establishment party may not always agree with each other but will go with the majority of the party. Where as the other group of States Member if they do not agree with the majority they will not support the rest of them hence they get nowhere.
Lesson to learn for the other party. In which case the CoM would have been made up of mostly the other party.

Offline rico sorda

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Re: The Continued Erosion of Democracy in Jersey?
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2012, 04:54:26 PM »
Deputy Pitman has done an excellent Blog Posting on these issues

http://thebaldtruthjersey.blogspot.com/

rs
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Online Dundee

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Re: The Continued Erosion of Democracy in Jersey?
« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2012, 05:52:15 PM »
Deputy Pitman has done an excellent Blog Posting on these issues

http://thebaldtruthjersey.blogspot.com/

rs

It would be of some merit had he not a vested personal interest himself.  Intriguingly he and Bailhache both have the same proposal in cutting the amount of members, so is his attack more of a personal nature?

Offline rico sorda

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Re: The Continued Erosion of Democracy in Jersey?
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2012, 06:03:01 PM »
The word we are looking for is "Independent"

rs
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