Define Good States Member?

[boatyboy]

A Question asked by Xenth who said,

Just want to see what people think is a good states member?  What an interesting and relevant question !

This is such a good question and so,  I hope you don't mind that I put it up as a topic on its own.
becuase I started to think about it and it was not as easy to answer as I first thought.

My personal view is that after the second world war when Jersey was struggling to feed it's  people and Jersey was desperate for income and the population was far lower we needed a Government with vision and business acumen and ideas of growth. This happened, the people got fed and business grew.

What we need now is not the complete opposite but certainly a different type of politician. We need people that  do not spend and tax, are not subservient to outside investors like Dandara trying to use Jersey to make money the so called bottom line merchants, but have little interest in the community or its actual future.

What has become clear to me over the past few months is Senator Ozouf and the CoM want growth, growth and more growth a figure of 3% a year has been mentioned.

The new word that people ( except of course the Government ) are using is sustainability. I appreciate that nothing stays the same and we must go forward and not backwards, but at this juncture the way Jersey is advancing and in my view is being raped,  giving most of the islanders ( look at the breakdown in efficiency and management of States departments  for example and continued increase in GOV, spending ) a worse quality of life.

BB

[Xenth]

Good Reply Boaty, and i quite agree, ultimately while we all have different views we are all after the same thing......a fair deal.

Jersey has gone from being a three tiered money maker (Tourism, Agriculture and Finance) to a one tier slave, we are set up to only gear toward Finance, which whilst people argue the pros and cons we all know Finance to be a fickle mistress, if a tax changes in Isle of Man or another "tax haven" finance will be gone before the next set of expensive and publicly funded offices have been erected.

What we need is a strategy to open the doors to to another money maker, E-Gaming? promote what we have in Tourism? After all we are the only part of the UK to be occupied and have century's of history here? But when it comes to any sort of interaction the places are just relics. At one point Jersey Royals and Jersey Milk were iconic with the island along with the Jersey Cow, now this seems all but a distant memory.

There is no point in being nostalgic what we had isn't coming back, but that doesn't mean we cannot make this place great.
I think there is a great need for a population cap and Visa's to be able to work, if you have a trade in which we are short then there will be a opportunity to be a part of the community. I think having this will lead to helping cut down on the states departments being overrun, this should have happened years ago. This isn't a rant against foreigners or any minority as i am all for a diverse community but on an island 42 square miles there has to be some common sense? Australia have strict rules and barely use one half of the place? Yet here we are with the doors wide open? Some things got to give.....

So to put a point on this little rant of mine  a good states member is someone who isn't going to promise to change the world, its the ones who will start with the small things and rather than vote with the popular boys, make informed decisions and vote how they and there district see fit. I know having spoken to some of the deputy's the frustration they face, not only in the sittings but with there own districts and the communication there, and while we sit here and put the world to rights there attempts are shot down by old boy snobbery and the fact they read the floods of paperwork and make an informed decision and place a vote that may settle with the "COM" sees them deemed as "The Establishment".

A good states member is one who will listen, make an informed decision from the facts presented to them and what there district want and make a decision which may not be popular on one side or the other but its a decision which is informed and BRAVE and for the good of the island, not just for right now but for generations to come.


Thanks and sorry for going off topic.

[man in the street]

 a good states member , would  respect   all sides ,  the rich and poor and mid jersey.
 make  a decision  to vote yes  for something , only if the  people  will benefit  , not just a small amount of the people .
 and yes  those votes may be  unpopular, but have back bone to stand by their convictions .
  like xenth i too would like to see visa,s  and a capped population, till our unemployment  drops to say 750( as it was in the 80's )
 as boatboy states ,  politicians who do not tax and spend , yes we do need growth , but  why at light speed ,  slow and steady  would be ok  and not the  boom and bust we have now , one day building will come to a end  as we know it , as we will be out of space.
 the next five years will be interesting for us all, i expect another haphazard  year of  no work  followed by flat out work . imho.

[Calimachon]

Years ago we had politicians who were more closely connected with the people in my view.  They were soon ditched if their policies or behaviour did not conform with what society thought at the time.  So maybe our society's/community's expectations have changed over the years.

I also think there was a kind of understanding that politicians would normally do well, with honesty and integrity, whilst in government but that was a sort of perk for working for his/her community and for working hard.  But these days it would appear they think it is a God given right and some have just become far too greedy, often without delivering the goods - 'Good Government'.  Human nature I suppose.  I may be wrong but that is the way I see it!

Cali

[Chevalier Blanc]

I think time passed the Island did not have the population that it has today and in those days the majority of people sort of knew the people who were standing for the States. They look at the Island as a whole and what affix their decisions would have on the people where as today the ministers ( and i say ministers not the rest of the States Members ) all think about making money and big glories plans for development which will make their friends in business more money as well as themselves. This has been proved time and time again.
Before ministerial government the establishment party was spread over a number of committees where as today they hold all the minister posts who make the policies and they get their policies through because of the few members who want to keep in with the power makers and not bothering with the people of the Island.
Just maybe in the new house come October the odds maybe turned around.
Remember if you want to try and keep a person out of the states come election time, make sure you vote for who yuo want first then vote for any outsider just to keep the votes away from the people you do not want to get in. The establishment voters normal only use one or only vote for standing members of the establishment and not use all their votes.

[Stuart Syvret]

I think before you could 'define what constitutes a good States member' - you need to first have an accurate appraisal of the landscape you're considering.

And a realistic degree of expectation.

If you are expecting ‘super-beings' - it's pretty much axiomatic that the occupation of politics is not the place to look.

And then there are your 'political' preferences. One person’s "good" politician, who is Right-leaning - might be the next person's "dreadful" politician.

In many ways, the question is doomed to be unanswerable in any complete sense.

That said - based upon my twenty years of experience - I'll offer this assessment of the one, key, characteristic that any politician must have - as a minimum - to enter the ‘qualifying-test’ for "good" States member.

They must be open and honest about their political views – and their individual objectives.

Any politician – Left or Right – who has, and is driven by, hidden-agendas – is toxic to effective representative democracy.

And that consideration is massively important in Jersey, where we have no tradition of party-politics; that absence of parties makes it even harder for the public to know what they are getting for their votes.

It may seem a small expectation, but if your preferred States members have no hidden agendas – then they are already far, far above the average standard.

Stuart

[Xenth]

Definitely not super beings......my government told me we can only get them from overseas, as no one local is qualified enough 

But of course no one person is going to be loved by all, i think every politician is like Marmite, we either like them or dislike them.

The thing is the voting public want to hear that Nominee A can rid us of GST, Cure the sick, house the homeless, get the unemployed employed, make businesses pay there way and put a cap on the population. The reality is we all know this cant happen without like minded people in government who have views and challenge opinions without personal gain, and even then it will take time.

The real secret here is not only to vote but look carefully at the candidates, more importantly try and talk to them face to face, understand what there about, those who promise the earth rarely deliver, those who start small and think of all the little things are the ones who together could make a better government.

This right and left malarkey, is there not a straight down the middle option?

[more]

     Good to see R.Duhamel Environment Minister In making the effort having deferred all proposed developments until he visits sites himself, also decisions, as said at a meeting recently. A survey taken by the J.E.P. of islanders asking for major contributions as to what they would most like to see stopped.  Buildings came high on the agenda. If he can stop the continuing glut of houses flats e.c.t. we see ruining our Island. He may just have found a niche for himself in getting it all through to the obvious conclusion.In calling a halt perhaps for as long as 5yrs, a breathing space in keeping the Natural beauty of our Island which could not be replaced in our lifetime,
  It would attract many more visitors in the summer months helping the economy at the same time.As his known to favour the Environment in all the years of being in the States. This Minister
 could be the first one in giving the Public what they want and has been asked for.

[imacrappaud]

What we need now is not the complete opposite but certainly a different type of politician. We need people that  do not spend and tax, are not subservient to outside investors like Dandara trying to use Jersey to make money the so called bottom line merchants, but have little interest in the community or its actual future.
BB

I visited Dandara once and the main guy, forget his name showed me his waterfront plans and then proceeded to explain how he wants Jersey to be a place his children will be proud of living in etc. Hence, he does not do anything that would ruin their furture in regards to Jersey being a beautiful place. He rambled on, like I am doing(!), about how he didnt want to harm its natural beauty because I had to bear in mind this Island was his kids future living place and blah blah blarney stone and all that.

To get back to the subject, what would define a good states member to me would be someone who could see through all the utter rubbish above and put a stop to it, unfortunately that means in my view we have very few good states members as all the waterfront and portelet all came to pass pluss many more blots on the headland that the dumb ahems seem to think is alright. They seem to think or believe Jersey is only for looking out of and sod the views of our headlands when looking into.

Another good states member would see that more and more people are becoming unemployed because of so many companies going for the cheap labour option and that the reason is greed by the owners pure and simple. If a company is making profit, and I am not having a go at Dandara here i am being general, whilst paying people £10 per hour and house prices are going up then it is pure greed that they are then employing foreign workforces who will do it at minimum wage and come here because its so crap in their own country on minimum wage that they will take the jobs. I dont blame them, who wouldnt but a good states member would have noticed this a long time ago and tried to put some sort of limitation on how many came come here, sod that five year thing as its no better than the paper its written on.

A good states member will also be able to voice their own opinions and not get castigated for it, or feel they best vote in a way their master would expect. they should vote on their own principals and that of their electorate not what they think will keep them in a job or gwt them better partnerships at social functions. But then thats the Jersey Way, small island, small community got to look after number one eh.

Ranted on a bit much there, too many late night stellas perhaps!!!! Well thats my views on a good states member, cant wait to get voting.

Must also point out that when I am old and retired I am going for one of them incontested seats, 40k odd a year when retired, friggin brucie bonus!

[Darius]

And then there are your 'political' preferences. One person’s "good" politician, who is Right-leaning - might be the next person's "dreadful" politician.

They must be open and honest about their political views – and their individual objectives.

Any politician – Left or Right – who has, and is driven by, hidden-agendas – is toxic to effective representative democracy.

And that consideration is massively important in Jersey, where we have no tradition of party-politics; that absence of parties makes it even harder for the public to know what they are getting for their votes.

It may seem a small expectation, but if your preferred States members have no hidden agendas – then they are already far, far above the average standard.

Stuart

The old left-right cleavage in society based on social class is no longer particularly relevant.

The main division now is between those who are authoritarian (who believe in big government, high taxation with benefit dependency, and social control) and libertarian (who believe in small government, low taxation but self-reliance, liberty and freedom).

Bring on the rEVOLution!

[Mark Forskitt]

The inadequacies of simple left-right (economic) distinctions is well know to us Liberal types.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_compass http://www.politicalcompass.org/ might be of interest.  A couple of years ago I took the test at Political Compass, purely out of curiosity. The result:

Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: -5.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.49

Which apperas to place me somewhere between Ghandi and the Dali Lama, in the green coloured libertarian left block.

No surprise there then, albeit that I have very big reservations on using economics as a distinction of politics. Starting with the view that classical economics is inherently flawed in the real, finite resource world!

[Darius]

Ah well Mark, you definitely out score me:

Economic Left/Right: 0.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.95

That puts me in Liberal Democrat territory.

Test yours at:
http://apps.facebook.com/thepoliticalcompass/

[boatyboy]

Very nice Darius and Mark you can count and to be honest your figures mean little to me, but no doubt do to someone. I have some question's for all candidates and maybe you would answer under your own names, on pj for future reference. I would rather not post under each of your names with the same question it blocks up the front page. The questions are straightforward.

Given that the UK now has completely outstripped any country in Europe for single teenage mothers, and given that contraception is easily available and in many forms, if you were elected and became a respected chief minister leading your council,

a) How many single mums (through their own choice), would you suggest is the right figure for Jersey

b) Would you be in favour of giving a flat and financial support to a young single lady in this position ?

c) Do you believe children in one parent ( the teenager's choice) families have the same opportunities in life and the same stability that families with both parents have.

d) Do you believe teenage girls should not put themselves in this position to become a financial burden to the island when today getting pregnant is an option with the morning after pill etc, how will you curtail this behaviour.


Thanks

BB

[imacrappaud]

The inadequacies of simple left-right (economic) distinctions is well know to us Liberal types.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_compass http://www.politicalcompass.org/ might be of interest.  A couple of years ago I took the test at Political Compass, purely out of curiosity. The result:

Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: -5.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.49

Which apperas to place me somewhere between Ghandi and the Dali Lama, in the green coloured libertarian left block.

No surprise there then, albeit that I have very big reservations on using economics as a distinction of politics. Starting with the view that classical economics is inherently flawed in the real, finite resource world!

I took the test and landed right on Ghandi's spot, just need to get a loin cloth now! Dont understand what the figures etc mean but I can say for sure that it does show I care about my fellow human beings, although I didnt understand one question at all so that may have skewed it a bit.

[boatyboy]

As the employment figures rise, members pay themselves more.

Reality is a word not understood by many politicians in the States of Jersey

BBC.

Jersey States members expenses to rise in 2012

Politicians in Jersey will get their expenses increased by nearly 10% next year.

The amount all States members are able to spend on work expenses is set to go from £3,650 to £4,000.
Deputy Shona Pitman tried to cancel that rise in the States on Thursday, but was supported by only five other members.

She argued that ministers should not have an unfair advantage over backbenchers.

Deputy Pitman said in the States: "The result is that I believe there is a probability that the overall sum set aside for members expenses could be more appropriately allocated.

"Furthermore that the cost to taxpayers may even be reduced."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-jersey-15577299

BB