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Author Topic: Tidal power  (Read 3466 times)

Offline Uriel

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Tidal power
« on: July 15, 2009, 01:43:34 PM »
Many of you will know that the States established a committee to look into the possibility of generating power from the tidal flows around the Island.  What's happened?  We're buying expensive electricity from France, when every day, constantly, a vast source of energy available to generate electricity flows around our Island. 

Last year, an experimental tidal power generator was placed in Strangford Lough, Northern Ireland.  It has proved a great success, generating enough electricity to power 1,000 homes.

There's enough space in the waters off Jersey's coast to place hundreds of similar tidal generators.  Instead of buying electricity from France, we could sell them our own electricity!  OK, the capital costs would be huge, but over a 20 / 30 year period the return on capital ought to be good: especially as it'd be possible to benefit from the EU's carbon credit scheme (which would probably cover a fair proportion of the outlay).

I wouldn't suggest that the States itself gets involved (heaven forbid: they couldn't organise a p*** up in a brewery): this requires private enterprise to take the risk but reap the rewards, if any.  All the States has to do is clear the use of the sea bed (and make consequential regulations, for example, no fishing zones around the areas of the generators).  So why aren't they getting on with this?
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Offline Durendal

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Re: Tidal power
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2009, 01:50:22 PM »
We should be investigating hot air power generated from the States Chamber!
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Offline Dundee

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Re: Tidal power
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2009, 03:04:54 PM »
The upkeep etc of tidal turbines makes it rather costly, not sure why the States have wasted half a million to let some numpties swan around looking at the possibility.
A few wind turbines would be a start, but then the head of the panel has spoken out in public about this renewable energy. Why not encourage more buildings to become more self sufficient? There appears to be little move in these area apart from a few individuals who want such innovations.
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Offline stoneface

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Re: Tidal power
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2009, 04:30:41 PM »
Tidal power can be quite damaging to the environment, depending on how it's done.

Would such a project benefit from the EU's carbon credit scheme, though? We aren't part of the EU, and since most of our electricity is French nuclear-generated, it would not be lowering carbon emissions. In fact, when you factor in the effects of manufacturing the tidal system, carbon emissions would probably go up.

I like the idea of self-sufficient buildings, but solar technology just isn't there yet. The return on investment is currently on the order of 25 years, although they reckon it will become economic on the building-level within about five to ten years as solar technology and manufacturing techniques improve. And no, government subsidies won't change this fact. They'll just hide the total cost by laundering it through the Treasury.
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Offline Ashley

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Re: Tidal power
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2009, 04:54:40 PM »
They should have been on this years ago - instead of wasting so much money on the waterfront entertainment area - they should have spent the money on making the island self sufficient. One day, we can only hope, they'll hold some sort of heinous crimes case, where the decision makers will all be wheeled into court, oxygen tanks an all, into the courtroom, to face justice for their ridiculous money losing ideas.
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Offline stoneface

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Re: Tidal power
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2009, 05:18:31 PM »
Self-sufficiency isn't a good thing in and of itself. If it turns out that we simply can't generate our own power cheaper than someone else can generate it and transmit it to us, then we shouldn't bother trying.

After all, I doubt you'd suggest that we should only eat what we can each individually grow, wear what we can weave and live in whatever we each can build. It doesn't make sense for us to be "self-sufficient" as individuals, and it doesn't make any more sense when you scale it up to the island - or any other arbitrarily chosen economic unit.
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"The only freedom which deserves the name is that of pursuing our own good, in our own way, so long as we do not attempt to deprive others of theirs, or impede their efforts to obtain it." - John Stuart Mill

Offline Dylan

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Re: Tidal power
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2009, 06:10:31 PM »
All hands to the pump boneface and we all win!
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!dereggub si draobyek ym kniht I

Offline stoneface

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Re: Tidal power
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2009, 06:20:19 PM »
Quote from: Gordon Brown on July 15, 2009, 06:10:31 PM
All hands to the pump boneface and we all win!

I can't even work out what you're trying to say, unless it's just a gratuitous swipe at my name?
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"The only freedom which deserves the name is that of pursuing our own good, in our own way, so long as we do not attempt to deprive others of theirs, or impede their efforts to obtain it." - John Stuart Mill

Online imacrappaud

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Re: Tidal power
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2009, 09:40:28 PM »
If we hadnt been over run by the finance industry then perhaps we would still be a self sustaining island. Unfortunately its too late as the old tight ass bean mentality has put us into the position where you either have the money or you dont and if you have then f the rest.
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Offline stoneface

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Re: Tidal power
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2009, 09:58:40 PM »
Quote from: imacrappaud on July 15, 2009, 09:40:28 PM
If we hadnt been over run by the finance industry then perhaps we would still be a self sustaining island. Unfortunately its too late as the old tight ass bean mentality has put us into the position where you either have the money or you dont and if you have then f the rest.

Being self-sustaining is the route to poverty. It is through specialisation and concentrating on what we're good at (i.e. have a comparative advantage), and trading that for the other things we want that others are better at producing, that we have raised our standard of living to what we enjoy today.

Seriously, do you want to solder your own computer boards?
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"The only freedom which deserves the name is that of pursuing our own good, in our own way, so long as we do not attempt to deprive others of theirs, or impede their efforts to obtain it." - John Stuart Mill

Online imacrappaud

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Re: Tidal power
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2009, 06:59:22 PM »
Ok stoneface I see your point however, have you ever watched any documentaries on the telly whereby you see age old tribes living very happily without having to solder the computer that they do not have the electricity to power.

They are still happy and enjoy life yet are in our eyes are in poverty, or maybe its just negative prosperity. We have got so used to the good life we see poverty as a completely different entity and dont actually realise what poverty really is.
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Offline stoneface

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Re: Tidal power
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2009, 07:55:34 PM »
Quote from: imacrappaud on July 16, 2009, 06:59:22 PM
Ok stoneface I see your point however, have you ever watched any documentaries on the telly whereby you see age old tribes living very happily without having to solder the computer that they do not have the electricity to power.

They are still happy and enjoy life yet are in our eyes are in poverty, or maybe its just negative prosperity. We have got so used to the good life we see poverty as a completely different entity and dont actually realise what poverty really is.

Recent research suggests that happiness is not really a function of how much you have (or don't have) but of expectations. As the song goes: "if I hadn't seen such riches I could live with being poor." Being used to sleeping on a comfy bed every night, with central heating and personal transport, I do have quite an easy life, but if I'd been brought up like these tribesmen, I'm sure I would be as happy in their world as I am in mine.

I don't think you can point to any one particular style of existence and say "this is the right one - this will make everyone happy." Everyone is different, and have different requirements for their happiness. Even in our society, where our high standard of living is based on trade and specialisation, you can, if you so wish, do as much for yourself if choose. People can, and do, grow their own food, make their own clothes, build their own homes and so on. I say more power to them - if it means there's more happiness in the world, then I am in favour.

What I don't agree with is when some people try to make these choices for us. Nationalistic and protectionist policies only purpose is to try and force people into making choices to meet other's desires and not their own. We should each be free to make the choices we need to live our own lives in the way we see fit.
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"The only freedom which deserves the name is that of pursuing our own good, in our own way, so long as we do not attempt to deprive others of theirs, or impede their efforts to obtain it." - John Stuart Mill

Online imacrappaud

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Re: Tidal power
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2009, 08:42:37 PM »
So our expectations are out living our means, such as people taking out loans to provide for their expectations rather then their means, or what they need.

I didnt mean to point out that one particular culture appreciates their means more than another I was just trying to point out in a subtle way that money and ergo trading for money doesn't buy happiness it only buys richess and being rich does not mean happiness it just means an easy life but not necessarily a happy one. Therefore a life in poverty can have its own riches.

I might need to shut up!
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Offline stoneface

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Re: Tidal power
« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2009, 08:55:37 PM »
Quote from: imacrappaud on July 16, 2009, 08:42:37 PM
So our expectations are out living our means, such as people taking out loans to provide for their expectations rather then their means, or what they need.

I didnt mean to point out that one particular culture appreciates their means more than another I was just trying to point out in a subtle way that money and ergo trading for money doesn't buy happiness it only buys richess and being rich does not mean happiness it just means an easy life but not necessarily a happy one. Therefore a life in poverty can have its own riches.

I might need to shut up!

I think I may have ended up on my soap box slightly...

I do agree with you though - I think it is fair to say that wealth (as in money) is not absolutely the same thing as riches. Money in the bank does you little good, but experiences can make you a better and more fulfilled person.
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"The only freedom which deserves the name is that of pursuing our own good, in our own way, so long as we do not attempt to deprive others of theirs, or impede their efforts to obtain it." - John Stuart Mill

Offline Chevalier Blanc

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Re: Tidal power
« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2009, 09:34:31 PM »
I was once told "that money cannot buy love"  the answer was " no but it will buy a bloody nice car to go out and find it"
Apart from that i think stoneface is right in what he says, i was in the Sinai Desert with the Bedouin and they said look at the sky with all the stars etc and the sun and the seashores what more do you want? Nothing they were very happy with their lives but the western world would not be happy with that.
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