Jersey Heritage Needs Support

[rogueelement]

Tonights JEP outlines the problems faced by Heritage ( A quango set for no particular purpose other than to give a few jobs to the boys)
The Jersey Maritime Museum may close! Let it , who goes there?
Hamptonne may close!! So what , have you been there? It is an old farm , there are hundreds of old farms in Jersey , who gives a tinkers cuss? If it is viable as a private enterprise then let someone take it over ,it will be  cash in the bank for the treasury and a loss of a few states employees who like to go around dressed as a mild maiden from 1780 , does anyone actually care??
This is the same Quango that threw out the duwks , put in a new firm which could not cope (nor could their boats) and then bought out the totally asinine operation for several hundred thousand pounds more than it was worth and took over the , er,, "service". Thus turning a profit making private enterprise into another bloody silly states scheme which just cost s hundreds of thousands a year in staff, (lets not forget their pensions down the line!) quite frankly we can do without Jersey Heritage, we already have more than enough people in place to ensure "heritage" is looked after .
Just close down this stupid sop to sentimentality and save the Island a few million a year. More money? You are seriously having a laugh.

[Ashley]

I agree - get rid of the chaff.   

Heritage will need to remain to look after the castles/forts/museum/War tunnels etc.  Like you say - who really cares about Hamptonne and the JMM? 

[boatyboy]

Where did The Heritage Trust go wrong or did they ?

On the one hand Jon Carter has a passion for creating some of Jerseys flagship attractions and of course he is right Jerseys Castles and monuments are world class, and over the years have had major public investment. At what cost to the island residents and is that cost justified with such a massive downturn in visitors ? Is he running a tight ship business wise ? He thinks so, JEP Saturday 27th May, in which he says, quote

It is a fact, and I am going to keep saying it. We do it cheaper because we have lower costs and make half our money on income. We are high quality, low cost and great value for money.  

He also says that Minister James Reed has said that in the downturn further funds are not available, Mr Carter goes on to say that his requests ( for more money) are falling on to many deaf ears in the council of Ministers.

It truly pains me to write this, but no Mr Carter they all hear you, the problem is that Jersey Heritage has become a financial shambles and for all of your posturing and talk of audits lets take a look at some hard facts.

Firstly the wonderful pagent of old England staged at Mount Orgueil Castle with actors brought in from England some time back, what was the loss ? around £300,000 give or take a few thousand. The work on Mount Orgueil Castle costings, done on the back of a fag packet as one scrutiny panel told me and then Heritage employed an architect that had no experience of castles, and the giant scaffolding stood at considerable cost  for years.

How did Heritage do with the Duwks, well you had so much money to spare it seems you added to the loans given to Pure and loaned them a further £51,405 page 47 appendix 10  section 3. Your lawyers understanding the  predicament you had made for yourselves, said buy the Duwks,  or keep Pure to their contract. Same page. See for yourself. Please hit the link then go to Appendix ten and read the lawyers letter.

http://www.statesassembly.gov.je/documents/reports/9554-49938-872008.htm

Again how short of money can Heritage be to carry on like this,  now taking on the role of a  bank giving loans to wealthy Duwk owners, and rather than make a sub contractor who runs a service, stick to their side of the contract, just buy them out a top price asked. Plain crazy.

It seems the lessons regarding the costs of Mount Orgueil did not really further Heritage understanding of business in the real world of spending other peoples money for a decent return.

How much did the radio tower at Corbiere cost to change into high quality accommodation. Another loss maker, I actually spoke to a tradesman who worked on the lavish project.

It seems that Minister James Reed has been in discussions, he would have taken advice from  several people maybe Big Chris the auditor general or scrutiny of course the Public accounts Committee where involved also.Those groups that have looked at the business empire and the details not accessible to the public. You are trying to amass, a small empire including a coach company, which in itself is at odds with the hard working tax paying local businesses you are competing with. I may be wrong I thought Heritage was classed as a Trust  you are supposed to be a Trust ( non-profit making ) and funded as such.  


The principal operational route remains West Park to Elizabeth Castle. However, while it is understood the proposed amphibious coaches can operate in rougher seas and worse weather than the DUKWS, Pure
Adventure and Jersey Heritage are keen that visitors are offered alternative experiences when access to Elizabeth Castle is difficult. In addition, Pure Adventure believes that there is a need to cater for visitors all year round and would like to offer additional routes that could only be provided by a vehicle such as the amphibious coach.

Route 1 – West Park Slipway to Elizabeth Castle
Route 2 – West Park Slipway to Hamptonne
Route 3 – West Park Slipway to La Hougue Bie and Mont Orgueil
Route 4 – West Park Slipway to St Aubin’s Harbour
Route 5 – West Park Slipway to Bouley Bay/Bonne Nuit Bay
Route 6 – Gorey Harbour to Anne Port
Route 7 – Hotel pick-up service.


http://www.gov.je/StatesGreffe/MinisterialDecision/TransportTechnicalServices/2007/operation+of+amphibious+vehicles+to+jersey+heritage+sites.htm?DisplayReport=true

You clearly said In Sarurdays interview,

Heritage has raised extra income from increased retailing, increasing memberships, entering the holiday and publishing markets, hosting weddings and promoting its sites far more actively.

That’s going to make all those business people who have re-mortgaged their houses and working even harder in the recession to keep their businesses going happy then. Some may even say this is unfair competition.

Does Heritage as a trust actually pay GST or tax on earnings as with the other businesses its competing with.

Politicians have for years been ridiculed because it accepted tourism has declined agriculture has declined markets change but departments are still heavily funded and staffed.

We have a Minister in James Reed who has said enough is enough, and he appears to be supported by fellow Ministers the repercussions of the real world have arrived in Jersey it seems.

The Heritage sites can still be maintained if not updated for £1. 9 million pounds a year, and maybe the loss leaders mothballed until there is an uplift.

Mr Carter if I may quote you again from Saturdays JEP.

We need to cut our coat according to our cloth and that means either more cloth or less coat.

At least you still have one Sir.

Boatyboy.

JEP Story

http://www.thisisjersey.com/2009/06/27/heritage-funds-crisis/

First submitted and accepted on planetjersey last Saturday 27th at 18.12hrs  

[Dylan]

Bang on the button BB!!

I reckon that there are serious questions which need to be asked in the House!
First of all, WHO IN THEIR RIGHT F*****G MIND HAS ALLOWED THIS DEPARTMENT TO BLEED SO BADLY? (Sorry Alvin, your Franchise on cap's locks and dodgy Pizzas).
Is this a hangover from our former chancellor?
Where has the money gone?

I have had a construction company for over 20 years. When Mont Orgeuil was about to be worked on, I went to the Bailliff's Norman Emissiary in France. He put me in touch with Atelier Labansat. They have the Franchise on all work on the Palais de Luxembourg and 80% of France's largest and most prestigious Chateaux. They also built the Boat roof on the Cathedral at Mont St Michel in 1968. So Mont Orgeuil? no great problems there. I spoke with Antony Gibb, who referred me to the Architect, the Late (I think) John Richards. He put me in touch with Jon Carter as well as the museums building projects manager ( a scouser!). I pressed many times for a chance just to price the work. Guess what! Never got a single call back!

A Mate of mine has an Ironmongery company, he was TOLD, "A Jersey Company will never get any of this work as if anything goes wrong, it will show a poor light on the organisers!" This is disgusting discrimination perpetrated by people who are employed at the taxpayers expense.

HELLO! What Bloody comes round goes round!  I say Jon Carter RESIGN!

[Calimachon]

Bang on the button BB!!

I reckon that there are serious questions which need to be asked in the House!
First of all, WHO IN THEIR RIGHT F*****G MIND HAS ALLOWED THIS DEPARTMENT TO BLEED SO BADLY? (Sorry Alvin, your Franchise on cap's locks and dodgy Pizzas).
Is this a hangover from our former chancellor?
Where has the money gone?

I have had a construction company for over 20 years. When Mont Orgeuil was about to be worked on, I went to the Bailliff's Norman Emissiary in France. He put me in touch with Atelier Labansat. They have the Franchise on all work on the Palais de Luxembourg and 80% of France's largest and most prestigious Chateaux. They also built the Boat roof on the Cathedral at Mont St Michel in 1968. So Mont Orgeuil? no great problems there. I spoke with Antony Gibb, who referred me to the Architect, the Late (I think) John Richards. He put me in touch with Jon Carter as well as the museums building projects manager ( a scouser!). I pressed many times for a chance just to price the work. Guess what! Never got a single call back!

A Mate of mine has an Ironmongery company, he was TOLD, "A Jersey Company will never get any of this work as if anything goes wrong, it will show a poor light on the organisers!" This is disgusting discrimination perpetrated by people who are employed at the taxpayers expense.

HELLO! What Bloody comes round goes round!  I say Jon Carter RESIGN!

I can totally understand your anger and annoyance


Cali

[Malachi]

Hamptonne and the JMM are very popular with families and children (my mother is always taking my nieces and nephew there during the school holidays etc.)

Regardless of what you think about Jersey Heritage (and there is a lot to criticise them for), it would be a shame if these places were forced to close.

[Dylan]

Nobody said they should close, except what was intimated by the person into whose hands they have been entrusted.

[Malachi]

I know that nobody here said that they should close, but Spartacus and Ashley did want to know who went to Hamptonne and JMM and who would care if these places were closed.

The answer to both these questions, for better or worse, is families/grandparents with young children.

[rogueelement]

Where did The Heritage Trust go wrong or did they ?

On the one hand Jon Carter has a passion for creating some of Jerseys flagship attractions and of course he is right Jerseys Castles and monuments are world class, and over the years have had major public investment. At what cost to the island residents and is that cost justified with such a massive downturn in visitors ? Is he running a tight ship business wise ? He thinks so, JEP Saturday 27th May, in which he says, quote

It is a fact, and I am going to keep saying it. We do it cheaper because we have lower costs and make half our money on income. We are high quality, low cost and great value for money.  

He also says that Minister James Reed has said that in the downturn further funds are not available, Mr Carter goes on to say that his requests ( for more money) are falling on to many deaf ears in the council of Ministers.

It truly pains me to write this, but no Mr Carter they all hear you, the problem is that Jersey Heritage has become a financial shambles and for all of your posturing and talk of audits lets take a look at some hard facts.

Firstly the wonderful pagent of old England staged at Mount Orgueil Castle with actors brought in from England some time back, what was the loss ? around £300,000 give or take a few thousand. The work on Mount Orgueil Castle costings, done on the back of a fag packet as one scrutiny panel told me and then Heritage employed an architect that had no experience of castles, and the giant scaffolding stood at considerable cost  for years.

How did Heritage do with the Duwks, well you had so much money to spare it seems you added to the loans given to Pure and loaned them a further £51,405 page 47 appendix 10  section 3. Your lawyers understanding the  predicament you had made for yourselves, said buy the Duwks,  or keep Pure to their contract. Same page. See for yourself. Please hit the link then go to Appendix ten and read the lawyers letter.

http://www.statesassembly.gov.je/documents/reports/9554-49938-872008.htm

Again how short of money can Heritage be to carry on like this,  now taking on the role of a  bank giving loans to wealthy Duwk owners, and rather than make a sub contractor who runs a service, stick to their side of the contract, just buy them out a top price asked. Plain crazy.

It seems the lessons regarding the costs of Mount Orgueil did not really further Heritage understanding of business in the real world of spending other peoples money for a decent return.

How much did the radio tower at Corbiere cost to change into high quality accommodation. Another loss maker, I actually spoke to a tradesman who worked on the lavish project.

It seems that Minister James Reed has been in discussions, he would have taken advice from  several people maybe Big Chris the auditor general or scrutiny of course the Public accounts Committee where involved also.Those groups that have looked at the business empire and the details not accessible to the public. You are trying to amass, a small empire including a coach company, which in itself is at odds with the hard working tax paying local businesses you are competing with. I may be wrong I thought Heritage was classed as a Trust  you are supposed to be a Trust ( non-profit making ) and funded as such.  


The principal operational route remains West Park to Elizabeth Castle. However, while it is understood the proposed amphibious coaches can operate in rougher seas and worse weather than the DUKWS, Pure
Adventure and Jersey Heritage are keen that visitors are offered alternative experiences when access to Elizabeth Castle is difficult. In addition, Pure Adventure believes that there is a need to cater for visitors all year round and would like to offer additional routes that could only be provided by a vehicle such as the amphibious coach.

Route 1 – West Park Slipway to Elizabeth Castle
Route 2 – West Park Slipway to Hamptonne
Route 3 – West Park Slipway to La Hougue Bie and Mont Orgueil
Route 4 – West Park Slipway to St Aubin’s Harbour
Route 5 – West Park Slipway to Bouley Bay/Bonne Nuit Bay
Route 6 – Gorey Harbour to Anne Port
Route 7 – Hotel pick-up service.


http://www.gov.je/StatesGreffe/MinisterialDecision/TransportTechnicalServices/2007/operation+of+amphibious+vehicles+to+jersey+heritage+sites.htm?DisplayReport=true

You clearly said In Sarurdays interview,

Heritage has raised extra income from increased retailing, increasing memberships, entering the holiday and publishing markets, hosting weddings and promoting its sites far more actively.

That’s going to make all those business people who have re-mortgaged their houses and working even harder in the recession to keep their businesses going happy then. Some may even say this is unfair competition.

Does Heritage as a trust actually pay GST or tax on earnings as with the other businesses its competing with.

Politicians have for years been ridiculed because it accepted tourism has declined agriculture has declined markets change but departments are still heavily funded and staffed.

We have a Minister in James Reed who has said enough is enough, and he appears to be supported by fellow Ministers the repercussions of the real world have arrived in Jersey it seems.

The Heritage sites can still be maintained if not updated for £1. 9 million pounds a year, and maybe the loss leaders mothballed until there is an uplift.

Mr Carter if I may quote you again from Saturdays JEP.

We need to cut our coat according to our cloth and that means either more cloth or less coat.

At least you still have one Sir.

Boatyboy.

JEP Story

http://www.thisisjersey.com/2009/06/27/heritage-funds-crisis/

First submitted and accepted on planetjersey last Saturday 27th at 18.12hrs  

A brilliant response from Boaty Boy, Lucid as ever and containing all the pertinent facts.
We like facts!
As for the person who has a grandparent who takes the kids to the maritime museum, I ask , how often? once a week? once a month ? once a year ? Is any of that relevant to keeping a place open which cannot survive under it,s own steam clock? Are the grandchildren enthralled on a weekly basis or bored rigid?
Hamptonne is a pure indulgence . I would not be surprised to find out that if we sack the idiot in charge we could afford to keep both places open.On your bike Mr Heritage , you have been found out and your duwks scuppered along with your empire building, tree hugging , wishy washy lovey dovey ,awwww , look at old Jersey bollix. There is more than enough of old Jersey still being lived in to demonstrate the worth of the Island , clapped out thinking by people from Heritage is the antithesis of what this Island needs.

[boatyboy]

Malachi,

I also take visiting friends to Elizabeth Castle and Mount Orgueil if the weather is good and they want to visit. I have sympathy with most of the people that work for and with Jersey Heritage they do an excellent job, many give their time without pay.

The problem is the rich family, Jersey,  is not going to stay rich for to long if those Departments and Heritage that have had money thrown at them for years, are not able to become more in touch with the real world.

On several separate issues Heritages bad business management caused by their own actions have alienated broad support from the tax-paying public.

So next time around, do you want the States to give £200,000 for milk for the children, or give to Heritage because not enough people visit .

CM Terry Le Suer and Treasury Minister Phillip Ozouf have told us its going to get worse before it gets better.

Tapestry or Milk, it’s a sign of the times to come otherwise why start raiding the piggy bank.

BB

[man in the street]

personally the new dukws are not a patch on the older ones built by the fair hand of a resident dutchman.
and they passed  dti inspection i belive.
there was rumour that the new dukws spend a lot of time skipping along the bottom on a neap tide.
have you seen one of these lunks ambling along the road.?
i am just waiting to see the hat been handed round to stuff tax payers money into keep this rubbish afloat.
did mike vibert not give a lump sum to this worthless cause?

[Malachi]

If these places have to close, then so be it blah blah... and it's already been pointed out that the money Heritage has wasted on other things could easily cover the gap between their income and their expenditure etc.

I was just pointing out that there are people who want Hamptonne and the JMM to stay open.

(the kids like the JMM, mainly because of the themed things they do from time to time... especially the pirates one where the staff get the opportunity to dress up and ham it up for a bit... but the oldest is only seven and a half...)

[Dylan]

If you ran a business (in the real world, as I do), would you, as your first step, spend all your working capital on not just dollying everything up to see how things work, then adjust the tiller, would you, as these clowns have done, spend every bloody penny on making pastiches of the past? What happened to the weighbridge sculpture money?

I tell you now this is far far more embarrasing than employing local companies to do the job , backed up by the best and most experienced in europe!

Extremely angry!

JC I repeat, pack up or be sacked!

[Dundee]

Some points:

The staff had a 6% pay rise last year and a person was recently employed specifically for public relations.

Extra funding was recently given and this appears to have been mainly spent on funding a recruiting campaign for membership, this is open competition to other bodies and charities that do not have the resources or funding back up of the public purse, where is the JCRA on this?

Hamptonne was an initiative of and funded by two other bodies the National Trust and the Societe Jersiaise. One suggestion I would make is to improve and widen the eating facilities there without charging those to eat an entry fee. Having a country market there on a weekly basis. Cultural displays and exhibitions could be encouraged.

Elizabeth Castle - JH (without the Trust) should never have bailed out the failed Pure Adventures venture, this should be left to  a commercial interest. Other links could have been considered, I once suggested a rather fanciful glass tunnel to the Islet, I guess it would not have been economically viable, but with almost a million on DUKWs and there running costs this may have not been so.
There is a harbour and breakwater there so why was not more conventional boats considered, these would probably have been more cost effective and could have been part of the enjoyment of the visit.

How much cultural money has been spent on the Gallery proposal? why was this idea ever entertained if other established institutions were about to go down the tubes? We never heard JHT and Deputy Labey condemn this in fact I think they were actually flagging the project!

Forts and Towers have been set up solely as a venture to create an income to the detriment of the smaller boutique style holiday lets, perhaps some should have been handed over to private bodies perhaps attached to certain existing holiday lets. I have also suggested that these be used on a wider basis for visiting education and cultural groups but this was not taken up.

I have made most of the above known to those concerned but they decline to agree with them.

[Fritz]

Amateur Management, (Jobs for the boys), can only slip past unnoticed when we have, "Money coming out of our ears".

Get Heritage and all its pretend jobs to feck!!