Deputy Southern admits breaking electoral law

[mpwpj]

You are talking about 22 votes that was the number that the 2 deputies helped...

Well if you believe what Dep. Pitman is quoted as having said in interview with police under caution as published in the JEP, then it's many more than 22 occurrences.  She admitted to more than the prosecution felt they had proof enough off to secure conviction.

Some people feel a 15year old girl is mature enough to know whether she's ready to have sex; some people disagree.
Some people think it's okay for teachers to have sexual relationships with their pupils; some disagree.

Suppose a person thought it was a human rights issue that 15year old girls should be allowed to make the decision, and suppose that person was the 15year old girls teacher.

Is it okay, as a matter of conscience, for them to have sex with the 15year old girl?  Obviously they'd have to pay a fine, but you'd be okay with them returning to work if they promised not to do it again right?

[Pomme de terre]

I think I know what you're talking about...

[rico sorda]

Well if you believe what Dep. Pitman is quoted as having said in interview with police under caution as published in the JEP, then it's many more than 22 occurrences.  She admitted to more than the prosecution felt they had proof enough off to secure conviction.

Some people feel a 15year old girl is mature enough to know whether she's ready to have sex; some people disagree.
Some people think it's okay for teachers to have sexual relationships with their pupils; some disagree.

Suppose a person thought it was a human rights issue that 15year old girls should be allowed to make the decision, and suppose that person was the 15year old girls teacher.

Is it okay, as a matter of conscience, for them to have sex with the 15year old girl?  Obviously they'd have to pay a fine, but you'd be okay with them returning to work if they promised not to do it again right?

mpwpj

Are you saying GS had sex with a 15 yr old girl can you confirm that for me please you seem to hinting at the fact cheers

rs

[mpwpj]

...can you confirm that for me please...

No.

[rico sorda]

ok thanks for that strange to bring a 15yr old into your argument thou cheers

rs

[mpwpj]

ok thanks for that strange to bring a 15yr old into your argument thou cheers...

Just an analogy; would you prefer one that doesn't include teacher being sexual involved with a pupil? Okay how about:

A person who uses illegal means to gain a degree, perhaps getting there former A-level teacher to write there disertation for them?

If they get caught do you think they should 5% of their marks taken away, but be allowed to keep the disertation, using it to further their career?

[danrok]

No it is not an analogy.  Filling in a form is not in any way similar to having sex with a minor.

Perhaps, you've randomly thrown that rubbish in here, just because Southern used to be a teacher?

If so, you're just making yourself look very shallow, bitter, and a bit thick.

Everything you've posted in this thread, has only convinced me that we are lucky you did not win at the elections!

[David Rotherham]

The point that most of you seem to be missing is there was NO fraud, NO pressure or control of completing postal votes, only reasonable assistance in obtaining them. For all anybody knows they could have been taken advantage of by people who only used their votes for Rod Bryans when they got them.
The comparison with lifts is interesting. Somebody in another district, where the JDA did not run, has been boasting about selling a very much needed vote to a narrowly successful candidate for a free ride to St Mary afterwards. I wonder if that one will end up in court, too, or else will the establishment decide that, as the right man won, it would not be in the public interest to dig any deeper?

[rico sorda]

Just an analogy; would you prefer one that doesn't include teacher being sexual involved with a pupil? Okay how about:

A person who uses illegal means to gain a degree, perhaps getting there former A-level teacher to write there disertation for them?

If they get caught do you think they should 5% of their marks taken away, but be allowed to keep the disertation, using it to further their career?

Im not sure what does the law say on that one... Because  as i understand it if you break the jersey electoral law as the JDA2 did you go to the royal court and get fined if they now need to be kicked out the law has to be changed.. We cant just make it up because were not happy about it ..

Now i know GS used to be a teacher and your analogy's have used teachers.

And for what its worth i think they should have been fined and i also think they were bloody stupid for doing it they should have said right during the election what they were up too..

rs

[danrok]

The point that most of you seem to be missing is there was NO fraud, NO pressure or control of completing postal votes, only reasonable assistance in obtaining them. For all anybody knows they could have been taken advantage of by people who only used their votes for Rod Bryans when they got them.
The comparison with lifts is interesting. Somebody in another district, where the JDA did not run, has been boasting about selling a very much needed vote to a narrowly successful candidate for a free ride to St Mary afterwards. I wonder if that one will end up in court, too, or else will the establishment decide that, as the right man won, it would not be in the public interest to dig any deeper?

It's a lie which is being at least partly propagated by the JEP.

Only a couple of nights back there was a short, anonymous, article by "Meridian" in the JEP, which commented on this in such a way to make the reader believe that Geoff Southern had filled out the actual voting form.  This being completely wrong of course.

Is it any wonder people are getting muddled up with the facts when the local media are publishing lies under pseudonyms?

[Deputy Dawg]

mpwpj

Are you saying GS had sex with a 15 yr old girl can you confirm that for me please you seem to hinting at the fact cheers

rs

I was under the impression it was a 16 year old, but using a 15 year old as an anology is a good way of showing two versions of BREAKING THE LAW which he did, and which he was taken to court for. He didn't go there for NOT breaking the law did he? Proof was only obtained to show certain things that he was prosecuted for, you do not know if he didn't fill in the voting forms, they just could not PROVE it, as is required in the law.

The initial suspicion prior to the reports from the other candidates was made from the people looking at the postal votes being cast and noticing that a large number where in the same handwriting, so how do you prove who wrote it if they say they didn't, and I mean prove as in without reasonable doubt.

BTW why does Southern as an ex teacher never put himself up for Education Sport and Culture? Is there a legal reason?

[mpwpj]

No it is not an analogy.  Filling in a form is not in any way similar to having sex with a minor...

Both are breaches of the respective laws, so it is an analogy, whether you believe it's a bad one is down to opinion, but it's there to make a point.

...Perhaps, you've randomly thrown that rubbish in here, just because Southern used to be a teacher?...

If I had used those analogies because Dep. Southern used to be a teacher it would not be random.  However the scenarios had a point, I make no connection between them and either of the candidates; if others have than they must know more about the candidates histories than I, and if they are aware of breaches such as those I coincidentally used as analogies I urge them to contact the authorities.

...If so, you're just making yourself look very shallow, bitter, and a bit thick...

As I've explained: Not so.

...Everything you've posted in this thread, has only convinced me that we are lucky you did not win at the elections!

I didn't stand in the election, so couldn't have won in that sense.  As an elector I lost, irrelevant of who I did or did not vote for and who did or did not get elected, but because all electors lost, as did democracy, because there was breaking of the election law.

[mpwpj]

...there was NO fraud...

Doesn't a candidate agree to fight a campaign based on the law? doesn't an incumbent member of the States operate under an oath of office where he's sworn to uphold the law?

Both candidate swore an oath, and then broke it, knowingly and deliberately.

Is that not fraud?

[rico sorda]

mpwpj

I can see this is really hurting but look the JDA2 have been tried and fined next week we will be onto something else thats the way it goes over here, you don't always get what you want.. The AG said in the states that there wont be a re-election and the matter is closed and also because it had no bearing on the final vote im not sure what you can do how about the SSS route and take it to the uk...

Or how about you leave your pc and hit the streets with your supporters, there are some on here who will back you up im sure...

Stand outside the states at the next sitting with some placards and let your feelings be known because just writing on here don't mean  jack you gotta get out there and make it happen just a thought like..

rs

[GeeGee]

It's a lie which is being at least partly propagated by the JEP.

Only a couple of nights back there was a short, anonymous, article by "Meridian" in the JEP, which commented on this in such a way to make the reader believe that Geoff Southern had filled out the actual voting form.  This being completely wrong of course.

Is it any wonder people are getting muddled up with the facts when the local media are publishing lies under pseudonyms?

/quote]

Yes I spotted this error by Anna Plunkett-Cole (aka Meridian) too. I hope that Deputies Southern and Pitman put this right and get an apology.