Author Topic: Location of New Incinerator  (Read 6045 times)

Offline lara.luke

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Re: Location of New Incinerator
« Reply #30 on: October 20, 2008, 06:08:47 PM »
Last year for a course I did an environmental statement on an energy from waste facility, looking through it earlier so i thought i would post it:

                      Key air pollutants from the Energy from Waste incinerator


The key air pollutants that are likely to be emitted from the proposed Energy from Waste plant including their potential significance to health or the environment are:
•   Organic carbon – in the forms of dioxide they can add to the greenhouse effect and monoxide can be toxic to both humans and plant life
•   Hydrogen chloride – poisonous, highly corrosive and phytotoxic
•   Hydrogen fluoride – highly corrosive and toxic
•   Sulphur dioxide – this is one of the main constituents of smog. Depending on the level of concentration it can have varying effects on human health. It affects the respiratory system from relatively minor bronchial spasms to respiratory paralysis and death. It can also be the cause of eye and throat infections. Sulphur dioxide also affects lichens but at much lower concentrations.
•   Sulphuric acid – as an emission from an incinerator stack, it is emitted in the form of small droplets which are difficult to remove form the air. The effects are on the  respiratory tract in humans but as it is in droplet form it has the potential to travel further and in fact do more harm, being able to reach the alveoli in the lungs without being absorbed by the nose, throat or bronchial passages first.
•   Nitrogen monoxide and dioxide (expressed as NO2) – this is another of the main constituents of smog. Nitrogen oxides can cause eye, throat and lung irritation especially in vulnerable people. Nitrogen oxides stay in the atmosphere for around one day before they are oxidized and then forms nitric acid. As a result of this process nitrogen oxides contribute to the formation of acid rain.
•   Particulate matter – they can cause breathing difficulties on their own but also can combine with sulphur dioxide for example and carry the gas further into the respiratory tract causing increased effects.
•   Mercury and other heavy metals - mercury has the ability to build up to toxic levels in the tissue of animals such as fish for example. Mercury and other heavy metals can be poisonous in excessive amounts. Lead poisoning can lead to impaired mental ability.
•   Dioxins – are toxic to humans and can also contaminate soil.


The main acid gases produced by this process are hydrogen chloride, hydrogen fluoride and sulphuric acid.

These facts are well documented in many a text book too, so i think i ll agree with the doctor ;)

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Offline Nick Palmer

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Re: Location of New Incinerator
« Reply #31 on: October 21, 2008, 04:27:49 PM »
Last year for a course I did an environmental statement on an energy from waste facility, looking through it earlier so i thought i would post it:

                      Key air pollutants from the Energy from Waste incinerator


The key air pollutants that are likely to be emitted from the proposed Energy from Waste plant including their potential significance to health or the environment are:
•   Organic carbon – in the forms of dioxide they can add to the greenhouse effect and monoxide can be toxic to both humans and plant life
•   Hydrogen chloride – poisonous, highly corrosive and phytotoxic
•   Hydrogen fluoride – highly corrosive and toxic
•   Sulphur dioxide – this is one of the main constituents of smog. Depending on the level of concentration it can have varying effects on human health. It affects the respiratory system from relatively minor bronchial spasms to respiratory paralysis and death. It can also be the cause of eye and throat infections. Sulphur dioxide also affects lichens but at much lower concentrations.
•   Sulphuric acid – as an emission from an incinerator stack, it is emitted in the form of small droplets which are difficult to remove form the air. The effects are on the  respiratory tract in humans but as it is in droplet form it has the potential to travel further and in fact do more harm, being able to reach the alveoli in the lungs without being absorbed by the nose, throat or bronchial passages first.
•   Nitrogen monoxide and dioxide (expressed as NO2) – this is another of the main constituents of smog. Nitrogen oxides can cause eye, throat and lung irritation especially in vulnerable people. Nitrogen oxides stay in the atmosphere for around one day before they are oxidized and then forms nitric acid. As a result of this process nitrogen oxides contribute to the formation of acid rain.
•   Particulate matter – they can cause breathing difficulties on their own but also can combine with sulphur dioxide for example and carry the gas further into the respiratory tract causing increased effects.
•   Mercury and other heavy metals - mercury has the ability to build up to toxic levels in the tissue of animals such as fish for example. Mercury and other heavy metals can be poisonous in excessive amounts. Lead poisoning can lead to impaired mental ability.
•   Dioxins – are toxic to humans and can also contaminate soil.


The main acid gases produced by this process are hydrogen chloride, hydrogen fluoride and sulphuric acid.

These facts are well documented in many a text book too, so i think i ll agree with the doctor ;)



Umm, there will be gas cleaning fitted - acid gas capture, electrostatic or bag filters for particles plus temperature control burners to minimise the formation of dioxins. Not that I'm saying an incinerator is a good idea -because it's not - the alternatives are better in almost every single regard

Offline lara.luke

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Re: Location of New Incinerator
« Reply #32 on: October 21, 2008, 04:50:01 PM »
Umm, there will be gas cleaning fitted - acid gas capture, electrostatic or bag filters for particles plus temperature control burners to minimise the formation of dioxins. Not that I'm saying an incinerator is a good idea -because it's not - the alternatives are better in almost every single regard

To the best of my knowledge, whatever cleaning system is used is does not totally eradicate every trace of a pollutant, none of these operate on 100% efficiency and in turn produce waste products. Even with all those measures including possible cyclones, separating solid and liquid particulate matter from the flue gasses, the aim is the 'minimisation' of waste gases. They will not 'clean up' the emissions.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2008, 04:54:23 PM by lara.luke »
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ole razzy

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Re: Location of New Incinerator
« Reply #33 on: July 07, 2009, 10:17:12 PM »
I have a friend over from New Zealand at the moment. Its the first time he's been to Jersey. His hobby is filming. We went for a walk around St. Helier harbour yesterday and up over Mount Bingham. Occasionally we would stop and he'd film a few seconds of footage then we'd move on. When we got to La Collette he asked me about the buidling works (in his day job he's a civil engineer) and I explained that our government had recently agreed to build a new incinerator. He got his camera out and started to film the construction site. With 2 minutes this site manager type in high viz bib and hard hat comes running over waving his arms and shouting that we are not allowed to film anything as its against the law. Now I work in TV so know the rules (which I explained to him in my poshest English accent) and he backed off. So I asked him what the big deal was and do you know what he said?

He said something along the lines of "We are under strict instructions not to allow anybody to film or take photos of the construction of this building as we are very concerned that people like Stuat Syvret or any of his green mates will try and stitch us up".

How strange is that?  What the hell have they got to hide? Who is telling these guys to look out for stuff like this? Is this a political directive? More questions then answers I'm afraid.

Offline lara.luke

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Re: Location of New Incinerator
« Reply #34 on: July 07, 2009, 10:43:14 PM »
Did you get the name of the gentlemen who stopped the filming?!
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ole razzy

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Re: Location of New Incinerator
« Reply #35 on: July 07, 2009, 10:45:05 PM »
I did not but he was, I honestly beleive, from Maderia and aged about 40.

Offline moot

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Re: Location of New Incinerator
« Reply #36 on: July 07, 2009, 11:06:06 PM »
I have a friend over from New Zealand at the moment. Its the first time he's been to Jersey. His hobby is filming. We went for a walk around St. Helier harbour yesterday and up over Mount Bingham. Occasionally we would stop and he'd film a few seconds of footage then we'd move on. When we got to La Collette he asked me about the buidling works (in his day job he's a civil engineer) and I explained that our government had recently agreed to build a new incinerator. He got his camera out and started to film the construction site. With 2 minutes this site manager type in high viz bib and hard hat comes running over waving his arms and shouting that we are not allowed to film anything as its against the law. Now I work in TV so know the rules (which I explained to him in my poshest English accent) and he backed off. So I asked him what the big deal was and do you know what he said?
He said something along the lines of "We are under strict instructions not to allow anybody to film or take photos of the construction of this building as we are very concerned that people like Stuat Syvret or any of his green mates will try and stitch us up".
How strange is that?  What the hell have they got to hide? Who is telling these guys to look out for stuff like this? Is this a political directive? More questions then answers I'm afraid.

This is worrying and pathetic. I just spent a week in Russia and it reminds me of the unease of taking photos there
I took some photos of the Moscow Metro when my wife shouted that I could be arrested for that. But in general I had no problems as long as I stayed away from anything military
The incinerator is paid for by our money and the s(h)ite manager's comments just shows how terribly narrow minded and shortsighted the people who govern us are. Depressing !

Offline lara.luke

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Re: Location of New Incinerator
« Reply #37 on: July 07, 2009, 11:39:23 PM »
To carry on regardless of the costs, I would say they are hiding something... perhaps burying stuff under the carpet! The future implications of potential actions against the States/ contractors from the effects of pollution could have high financial costs, far more than the brilliant idea of a non-refundable deposit of 50 million. I suppose we can put our minds at rest as it is the Attorney General who decides who is liable!
« Last Edit: July 08, 2009, 12:04:40 AM by lara.luke »
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Offline Durendal

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Re: Location of New Incinerator
« Reply #38 on: July 08, 2009, 05:44:17 AM »
To carry on regardless of the costs, I would say they are hiding something... perhaps burying stuff under the carpet! The future implications of potential actions against the States/ contractors from the effects of pollution could have high financial costs, far more than the brilliant idea of a non-refundable deposit of 50 million. I suppose we can put our minds at rest as it is the Attorney General who decides who is liable!

If it is a civil action that is pursued (negligence etc) the AG would be out of the loop.

Offline lara.luke

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Re: Location of New Incinerator
« Reply #39 on: July 08, 2009, 11:09:58 PM »
If it is a civil action that is pursued (negligence etc) the AG would be out of the loop.

I see where you are coming from but first would have to be decided who was liable, the land owner or the local authority (the States), depending on the type of pollution involved with the civil action. From the infill it may be the States however some accidental leak may then be the responsibility of the landowner of the day.
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Online Dundee

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Re: Location of New Incinerator
« Reply #40 on: March 19, 2010, 01:53:38 PM »
So in the event that if the system does not work, that if dioxides escape, that if some sort of pollution as yet unspecified might contaminate something as yet unspecified and that in the event that if a major unspecified breakdown occurs , there might be a court case if there is anyone who has suffered ?
Does that cover it, or should i add a few more "if,s" and "mights"
The Deal is done so it is pointless to haggle over it, but I agree we should keep a watchful eye on the project and have someone as illustrious as Nick to keep up a review of the dangers of pollution.


Utter rubbish Sparty:

http://temoins.rtl.fr/fr/videos/actu/2010-03-17/716/video-violent-incendie-a-l-incinerateur-d-issy-les-moulineaux.html

Online boatyboy

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Re: Location of New Incinerator
« Reply #41 on: March 19, 2010, 02:55:56 PM »

Good post Dundee.

Scrutiny recently found about two further toxic problems at the incinerator site. The civil servants who were being interviewed by the panel reported that two further more serious incidents could not be spoken about as they are under police investigation, one of them mentioned in the link below.

Quote.

April 2009 discharge that has caused Save Our Shoreline, the Deputy and others much concern, and which is allegedly the subject of an ongoing criminal investigation – an investigation that we are told is under way, but no one has yet interviewed the principal witness, nine months down the line.

http://www.thisisjersey.com/2010/02/05/the-public-must-know-what-has-happened-during-the-construction-of-the-incinerator/

boatyboy

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Re: Location of New Incinerator
« Reply #42 on: March 19, 2010, 07:05:52 PM »
Toxic waste found on Planet Jersey

Ref :-   BoatyBuoytalkingbollix.com

check it out on He,s a tube.