Question

[Jason the Maverick]

I will move away from the squabbling on the other thread and ask you a separate question.

We talk about saving money and we talk about transparency.

What I find from many people I speak to is that they have given up on the idea of the States saving money as they obviously spend money as soon as it gets in.

Some economic doomsters believe this is unsustainable in the years to come and we could get into a position of actually going bust.

My questions is, do the current States members you work with (in your mind) take spending seriously or is it a case of spend now and lets worry about it later?

[Fritz]

Like any, "Council Department". They believe that they have to spend their allocated budget every year so that next year budget is not reduced.
It is no incentive to make savings.

The, "Civil Service Mentality", costs us all, year on year.

[Sarah Ferguson]

The spending Review identified areas where we can save at least £30 million a year.  Not immediately - as £15 Million of this is from HR and we are dealing with people's lives.

The work PAC is doing on financial management and controls will mean that there won't be so many games with budgets.

The question you should all keep in mind in these elections is:

How much will it cost and where is the money coming from?

[Jason the Maverick]

I just wonder whether £30 Million is enough Sarah.

I think the problem with the Civil Service is that when it comes to spending they more or less have an open cheque book.

Private enterprises have much more financial control. 

I would say that judging by the comments I have heard about the way budgets are being used up in the States, that you should really look at saving £100 Million.

[en830]

Part of the trouble is no one has the balls to take on the on States Manual Workers and their Unions. If the states were to cut back on the civil services, in all departments, with a possibility of industrial action in protest from those affected. Is the population of Jersey prepared to put up with the upset of no rubbish collections, blocked drains, no road maintenance etc as will undoubtedly happen.

Jersey can't exactly bringing in the army to fill the gap !

[Sarah Ferguson]

I did say "at least".

[Fritz]

Take the unions on, and agree to pay their members exactly what they are worth.

Get them to justify their wage claims.

Most  workers in,"The Public Service", build in their statuary three or four weeks, "Sick Leave",  into their holiday plans.

Get it Sorted!!!

[churchill]

Tell me more about taking the unions on .

I agree with paying workers what their worth .

Don't like paying people for doing sod all though.

CHEERS.  ALVIN.

[The Rev Peter Sarkey]

Fritzy, I have worked very closely on wage negotiation committees in the far and murky past. I can assure you that as in all walks of life a little sugar goes a long long way. We used to pay a pip over the union rate, we supplied all the wherewithal required ( boots etc) we employed slightly under the required hours and paid bonus schemes to all. we were highly succsessful, never rolled over and when the general committee wanted 12% Rene was happy to deal at 3.2% with no less than a very nice comment about our set up. We never had a single problem even when the Unions were in discord. Our employees would never give up their lot and they all worked hard. I hate unions in general and would never join one but dont be totally disillusioned that all members do not work. This is as bad as saying that all politicians are up to no good.

[Lieve]

Point one

If someone is hungry, you need to feed him, give him good food - but it does not necessarily have to be chateaubriand.

If someone is hunger, you give him something nice and thirst-quenching to drink; it does not really have to be champagne.

If someone is cold and almost naked, by all means dress him in nice clothes, but it does not have to be an Armani suit.

I someone is homeless and you give him a warm, cosy house, he will be happy enough; you needn't worry he will resent you for not having given him a mansion.

For those that still aren't getting the point ... Jersey seems to think we always need the biggest, the best, the most beautiful and most definitely, the most expensive, because surely, if it is not expensive, it can't be good quality ! (Of course it can, just look at Dandara !)

The States do not "shop around" the way Terry Le Sueur said consumers should if they can't make ends meet (as if they don't already!). It is a public secret that most construction companies - especially the non-local ones - inflate their quotes when it comes to the States asking for tenders, because they know all too well the States will pay without asking questions. If that is the case in construction, I doubt it will be different elsewhere. And THAT is why we are overspending !

I am all for good education (I would, wouldn't I, as a former teacher!) and the introduction of technology into education has opened up a lot more possibilities; computers and the internet and really my thing, so ... .  But you can also overdo it ! Take the interactive whiteboards a lot of our schools boast; about 2,500 pounds each. Is the teaching significantly better, though, because we now have those interactive whiteboards ? A good teacher will be able to diversify their teaching with a whiteboard, but a good teacher who has no whiteboard available will still be able to deliver well. I am not against those whiteboards, on the contrary. But I seriously doubt you really need one in virtually every single class and our schools (or is it our Education Department) seem to be aiming for that!

At my school, we did not have those whiteboards at all, but we did have quite a few LCD projectors (Yep, got that right ! I used to get confused and call them LSD projectors !  ) Those projectors were allocated in large classrooms that were not permanently allocated to one particular subject or teacher or class. In other words, if you wanted to use the projector, you had to book in advance. Never really had any problems with that ! It simply meant you had to be organised, and I think as a teacher you have to be anyway.

Point two

I liked the new Le Rocquier school, but then I also liked the old Le Rocquier school and I am sure many headteachers of schools outside Jersey would have  LOVED to have a school like the old Le Rocquier school for their premises. If it ain't broken, don't fix it ! Well, I didn't think Le Rocquier was "broken" - dented and damaged maybe, but not broken.

How old is the complex of the Liquid, Cineworld, KFC and Pizza Hut ? Not old. Yet already they know that the faults in the building are so severe that the entire complex will have to come down in less than 5 years. Already they are losing shed loads of money maintaining the building because of the construction errors !

Point three

We are told Dandara is a private company (though we all know about vested interests and all but that aside ...). Then why the hell are we, the taxpayers, paying for the three-layer car park underneath the Castle Quay development? Are the States, are the taxpayers getting any of the profits made on the sale of Castle Quay ? (Don't worry, I am not that naive, it IS a rethorical question !)

Hey, Dylan, you said I was on a roll ! Let me tell you, this is only the tip of the iceberg !  But I thought these were already a few good examples of how the States waste our money. Of course, I equally agree with the other suggestions of high salaries, useless consultants, etc. I didn't mean to say these were not good examples, I merely meant to add ! 

(Imagine I was up on the podium at tonight's hustings and I would have had to answer in only 90 seconds ! )

[The Rev Peter Sarkey]

Yeah - just imagine -- zzzzzzzzzzzz
The question we should all be asking these people who all claim to love the honorary system is whether they would be prepared to work an apprenticeship as a minister for the first three years.
Anyone says yes is a liar.

[Sarah Ferguson]

Lieve

Interactive whiteboards and some of our children are leaving primary school without being able to read and write.  What on earth are they playing at.  This is the sort of prioritisation we are starting to change but you can see why I am wanting a bigger stick to "persuade" them with!

[Pomme de terre]

Sarah, I agree with you on the "interactive whiteboards" issue. Get the basics right first.

On the education/technology issue, have you heard the one about laptops being bought for all teachers a few years back, even though many teachers didn't need them for their jobs? A year or so later, certain schools ran out of cash to insure the things and asked teachers to put them on their own home contents insurance....even to cover them being stolen whilst at school, in the workplace.

Rumour has it that said laptops were puchased locally via someone's mate, at a much higher price than if one had gone direct to Dell or HP, etc.

The lack of a centralised procurement system leads us wide open to those engaging in corruption.

[moot]

Quote: Hey, Dylan, you said I was on a roll ! Let me tell you, this is only the tip of the iceberg !

Lieve, don't stop we want to hear more, I certainly am enjoying your comments !

[Sarah Ferguson]

We have an excellent procurement team but they are being frustrated by some of the Departments who are just staying in their silos.  There are 600 purchasing cards in Health alone.

The treasury officials have not been giving the procurement officers the support they need.  We are on the case.