Sean Power, St. Brelade No. 2

[en830]

There is an element that call themselves the Jersey Mother F###ers who have caused problems in the area. I believe they are known to the Police.

I don't understand the reason behind the destruction that goes on, such as smashing up bus shelters, torching the toilets by Winston Churchill park or throwing things at passing cars. I’ve heard boredom being blamed and nothing for kids to do. 30 years ago when I was a kid in the UK, we had less on offer than the kids do today but made our own entertainment. It didn’t involve wanton destruction of public or private property.

Christ I sound like my late father, now that is frightening

[Millennium Man]

You can't stop kids having gangs.  I would have thought this vandalism is alcohol fueled so just stop the supply.

[Fritz]

Must be very expensive for kids from other Parishes to travel to St. Brelade to cause bother???

[newmac]

We used to get a lot of trouble from kids at Grouville and a lot of them used to come from outside the area, one of the disadvantages of a regular bus service, same as St Brelades probably

[Sean Power]

Hi,

I posted a reply, but it seems to have disappeared. I am aware of the problems and indeed called a poorly attended meeting at Communicare. I had a call one night myself from someone in the Bay and went myself to the car-park at Winston Chrurchill Park. I went down on my Vespa. There was a group of "Hoodies" shouting, drinking, music blaring out of two cars (doors open) and they were kicking a football against the double doors of a lock up thing the Parish use for maintenance. The ball hitting the doors was the complaint with the loud music. I got got a mouthful of abuse and was told to "go away old man" and they surrounded me. I am afraid, my days of getting stuck in are over. So, I beat a retreat with coke cans and red bull cans flying in my direction.I called the Parish Hall and they went down.  On that note, the Honoraries out here are always looking for men and women to sign up.  I do not know why we have so much trouble out here. We have the best facilities, the Sports complex, the pool, the Railway walk, cycle tracks, the beaches, sanddunes and so on. Seems that they want to drink, get plastered and do anti-social stuff. I will do something, but after the elections. Otherwise I might be accused of electioneering.

Sean

[The Rev Peter Sarkey]

Great stuff- someone who will do something --- er forgive me for this but my son now 13 has been picking up rubbish in Winston Churchill for a number of years, we have witnessed countless acts of vandalism and what do the Police do?? "sorry we are busy elsewhere" etc etc. So if you are going to do " something " as a current member of the States of Jersey for the Parish would you kindly enlighten us regardless of what you have in mind whether there is an election or not?

[Sean Power]

 Hi,

I think those Parishioners that are fed up of these thugs and tear-aways should be able to express themselves at a meeting. The SOJP and Parish Honoraries will have to liasten and see if changing tactics will work . There are also problems in St. Peter and St. Ouen along the Five Mile Road.

Part of the problem is that the parents are enabling this behaviour by buying the alcohol for their kids that are under 18. I think going after irresponsible parents is part of the solution.

It is simply wrong for a parent to buy a youngster alcohol.

Sean

[Lieve]

In Belgium, legal age to drink alcohol in public is 16. I started sipping some wine with dinner at the age of 10, I think. I had my first beer when I was 13 or 14, at home with my parents. By the time, I was allowed to go out (at the age of 16), drinking alcohol was no longer a secret or taboo to me, because I knew I was allowed to. Having said that, I wouldn't have lived the day - I think - if ever I would have come home drunk. My parents taught me how to say yes, but also how to say no.

I taught 16- to 18-year-olds for 16 years and many years took the 17-year-olds on school trips to London and Italy (respectively 5 days and 10 days). Given the age limit in the UK, it was a bit of a tough one, but in Italy they were allowed to drink. Yet again, we made it very clear to them that we didn't mind them having some wine with dinner or having a beer (or two) in the evening - but they knew all too well we had zero tolerance to drunkenness. The ones you had to keep an eye on, the ones that would try to drink too much anyway, were usually the very ones whose parents would not allow them at home - as if they needed to make up for lost opportunities.

It is not something that will happen overnight, because unfortunately, also a lot of adults - parents included - have a very immature and irresponsible approach to drinking. I had never really seen binge drinking as a cultural phenomena - except for when I was in the UK, in Australia and now in Jersey.

It IS going to take a while, but I think we seriously need to educate people. As I said, it is not something that'll happen overnight, but at this moment in time very little seems to be done. Some time ago they were talking about raising the age limit to 21 - as if THAT will solve the problem. Everyone knows it won't - so why the heck do they want to "resolve" it that way ?

[Sean Power]

Hi,

I should clarify what I said earlier. I agree with Lieve. Introducing children to a glass of wine (diluted) is not negative.  However, giving your 13 year old vodka and red bull to take out in a re-used 2 litre bottle is a very different thing to the controlled French and Belgian "gentil" approach.

We are dealing with bad parenting here.

Sean

[Lieve]

Yep, fully agree, which is exactly why I said it won't happen overnight.

In Mechelen - Malines, a provincial town in Belgium they had ENORMOUS problems with yobs and anti-social behaviour. They started up this Nero-project. Zero-tolerance towards anti-social behaviour, police will pick the yobs up straight away and take them to HQ. When the parents collect their child, they are given a choice : they either "buy back their child" (read: pay a fine (currently €100, I think)) or all three agree to enter this contract in which they agree to be  guided and monitored. With a social worker they make up a plan which also involves parents taking more responsibility for their children. Anyway, I first thought this idea would not take off and stood no chance of succeeding, but lo and behold, ever since they started some 145 children have been picked up this way, and entered - with their parents - into this agreement. Only 3 or 4 of them have returned to yobbish behaviour. So far (knock on wood!) all the others have not got into trouble again. So I now have to admit it doesn't seem to be that naive!

[en830]

When the parents collect their child, they are given a choice : they either "buy back their child" (read: pay a fine (currently €100, I think)) or all three agree to enter this contract in which they agree to be  guided and monitored.

I love the buy back idea, trouble is will Jersey parents want to buy back their inebriated little darlings ?

[Sarah Ferguson]

I also like the buy back.  But what about the logistics - a few you can cope with but how do you cope with 150 people at a time?  It would also require a considerable increase in the number of social workers I suspect.  Still I think it is worth a look - I will pass the idea on to the Hon Police.  It would need to be done without the youngster incurring any sort of criminal record since the rehabilitation of offenders law is not working properly.

There is certainly a parenting problem - when I was centeniering, we would sometimes take semi conscious drunken youngsters home and the parents were in the same state.  The only one I knew for sure got into trouble was the one who had "borrowed" a bottle of vintage Bollinger champagne.  Other times we would confiscate various alcoholic drinks and some parents would give it straight back to the youngsters.

I notice they are trialling a curfew scheme in a village in the South West of the UK.  That also could be interesting.

[Pomme de terre]

One way to combat the problem might be to use portable video cameras. Get an honorary or states police officer to video the little darlings, then invite their parents in for a "viewing session without popcorn".

A similar technique was incredibly effective at combatting UK football hooliganism in the late 80s and early 90s. The police literally stuck portable cameras in the faces of known thugs. I once worked with a girl who "dated" a serious football hooligan. She told me that on away trips, the police would walk up to him and his mates, with a video camera, and say "Hello Gary, how are you today? Don't forget, we're watching you... ". This "in your face" approach really did work, it deterred them to a very large extent.

Nowadays, you can't leave a football ground or nightclub in a major UK city without seeing several massive flourescent police fans saying "you are on CCTV". In hotspots, video really works, it makes people think, even stupid drunken people.

The police could even post the videos up on a website (with faces obscured) as a sort of youtube rogues gallery. Concerned parents - if they exist amongst our shellsuited brethren - could log on and identify their child by their shellsuit and trainers.

I do appreciate the downside that there would be competition amongst thickos to make a starring appearance on such a website...

[Sean Power]

Hi,

I also like the idea of more parental accountability, whether you buy back your children with a fine or some other mechanism. The issue is simple. Children under 17 should not be drinking the way they do and then roaming the streets or the parks and public areas. They are getting the alcohol from some easy source.  Parents must know that young Charlie is out and must know he is drinking. As I have said, some parents are giving their children alcohol as some sort of weird trade-off.

 "Here is your 2 litres of vodka and coke. Now go out and give me peace. Try not to do anything stupid or attract attention"!

This is a form of madness. I have talked to our Honoraries and been out with them. They bring back these drunk children to find the parents drunk and comatose.

Children should not be in public places with alcohol or under the influence.  That is bad parenting as the parents do not know what their children are up to.

Sean

[Jersey Spud]

Mounted Police with dogs. That'd sort them.

But in all seriousness, parents must take responsibility. Fines must be levied. The powers are already there in the law in black and white.

For instance, parents of kids under 18 who offend, can be made to pay a cash security on their children's behaviour to ensure no reoffending. This measure provides valuable incentive, as if their kids reoffend, the parents lose the money. And if the parents don't pay up that money when required, they go to prison in default.

This requires no new legislation. It's in the law already (Young Offenders legislation) and has been since 1994. All that needs doing is for people to urge the courts to use that power. Victims of violence and intimidation should be writing to the Courts to make their views heard. Theirs are valid concerns for the Courts to take into account. As far as I can recall the Royal Court did this recently in relation to some violence at Snow Hill.
But most cases involving children don't reach the Royal Court. It seems to me its up to the Magistrate and the Youth Panel to be enforcing this. Pronto.