“IS THIS JERSEY?” – AND SOVIET-STYLE CENSORSHIP.

[Stuart Syvret]

I know readers of Planet Jersey would rather focus on relevant issues – as would I.

But I thought it might interest readers of this site - and provide a little light entertainment - to reflect on the conduct of NC – boss of the Is This Jersey website – and power behind the throne in Time4Change.

I’m no fan of the JDA – but I’ll say this for them – they had the very good sense to expel NC

As a reader of this site commented – fascinatingly, the argumentative comments in which I participated in an attempt to defend myself from NC’s deranged, personal obsession with me – have all been removed!

Isn’t that a surprise?

OK – sometimes threads get out-of-hand – and the administrator of a site may decide that it’s best to just pull the whole string if it’s become too diversionary, irrelevant or abusive.

But NC – who operates under several pseudonyms, “Tom Gruchy” being the primary one - has removed all of my self-defence comments – yet has left his original attack postings in place!

It gets better.

In response to this state of affairs, I posted the comment below on ItJ this morning.

Within an hour it’s been removed. But yet his original lying, attacks on me remain in place.

Oh well – what else can we expect of a closet Stalinist – with an unhealthy obsession with collecting Nazi memorabilia – and was very publicly arrested, and nearly prosecuted for breaking and entering a pensioner’s home in a search for Occupation memorabilia – and a man whose idea of a good holiday is to go and visit Auschwitz?

I’d really rather be focusing on important work – but when faced with such obsessive, hate campaigns being waged against for months – by frankly strange individuals, cowering behind  pseudonyms – I have to defend myself.

But look on the bright-side – at least this episode has exposed Time4Change as a closet-commie, opportunistic, bandwagon-jumping shower of hypocrites – lead by a man with some deeply disturbing personality traits.

I guess ‘don’t ever vote for Time4Change’ is the lesson learnt.

Stuart.


MY SELF-DEFENCE COMMENT – REMOVED FROM “IS THIS JERSEY” IN PREDICTABLE, SOVIET-STYLE CENSORSHIP BY N “TOM GRUCHY” – C.

NC/Tom - Tom/NC

NC

Just how spineless and ethically bankrupt can you and your bandwagoning Time4Change gang become?

You have removed all the comments which were submitted under three recent posts. These posts specifically attacked me – frequently with a pack of lies. And, with gross hypocrisy – the kind of “personal abuse” you criticise me for.

I stood up to your cowardly bullying – given that you insist on hiding behind a pseudonym.

Let us assume – for argument’s sake – that occasionally threads get out of hand on sites – and the administrators decide to remove them. The customary practice is to also remove the trigger-articles.

But – in another example of crass NC stupidity and hypocrisy – you’ve removed my comments which stood up to your frankly deranged, personal obsession with me – but left the original lying, bullying articles in place.

I say stupidity – because don’t you realise once something has been committed to cyber-space – it’s there forever? Don’t you think – if you’re frightened of the consequences of your mentally ill rantings – if you’re going to run away from the consequences of what you started – you should have realised that even if you decide to remove people’s retaliation against you – it will appear on other sites?

It’s all on Planet Jersey, NC.

All you’ve achieved is to show yourself to be a bullying thug – who in text-book fashion runs away crying when anyone stands up to you – and have shown yourself to be both unprincipled and stupid by leaving your original comments in place whilst removing comments critical of you – NC.

I know that it might be difficult for you to grasp such things amidst your obsession with Nazi memorabilia – and fantasies of a Leninist Peoples Republic of Jersey, with you as a Commissar, comrade  NC – but consider this: You’ve removed my comments – I want them all restored.

But if you’re not going to restore them, you must remove the original trigger articles. It has to be one thing or the other, NC – all or nothing. You cannot defame people on your site – then remove their defence – whilst leaving your original attacks in place.

So, Comrade NC – what’s it to be? You’re the main administrator of this site as well as being “Tom Gruchy” – so restore my comments – or remove your original, cowardly, lying, obsessive rants against me?

Should you do neither – henceforth I’ll have to just add my defences of myself – and examples of your embarrassing personal issues – to Planet Jersey.

I think I’ll also have to do a few posts on my own blog about the truth behind Time4Change – that’s it’s the personal vehicle of  personally inadequate, obsessive individual who is a communist, and who is obsessed with collecting Nazi memorabilia.

What’s it to be – Comrade NC?

Or perhaps that should be: ‘“Mehr Sein Als Scheinen as it says on the blade”?

Stuart.

---Admin ---
Full name of real person removed to comply with forum rules.
HOWEVER, after reading some of the posts left on isthisjersey and the way that the forum is being "moderated" to spin this in the favour of their website and against Stuart, then it is only correct that this post remains to show the behaviour of this website/group.
I am sure that stuart will be posting more information on his blog and possibly full names which can be accessed below
http://stuartsyvret.blogspot.com/

[Conductor]

I am barred from isthisjersey and you are right, it is absolute censorship.  Time 4 Change say they haven't got a website but whats a daffodil doing on the ITJ logo then?  Niccola N is Nic Le Cornu as well as De Gruchy and probably half a dozen others.....

David XXX is another buffoon who thinks he knows how to run this Island.

Come election time only the brain dead will swallow it. 

---Admin---
surname removed to comply with forum rules

[Dissident Aggressor]

They are holding a meeting tonight in a town pub so I take it Senator Syvret is not attending.

[Voltaire]

They are holding a meeting tonight in a town pub so I take it Senator Syvret is not attending.

Don't they have a meeting tomorrow night in the arts centre to set themselves up as a "political party"?
Grapevine and all that. Anyone confirm?

[en830]

and a man whose idea of a good holiday is to go and visit Auschwitz?

Actually SS I can see nothing wrong with this, having been to Sachenhausen and Buchwald concentration camps and also many of the battle fields and cemeteries scattered across France and the Benelux countries. If nothing else it's very sobering and a constant reminder that the relative political freedom (in comparison to many regions through out the world) that we enjoy has been fought and died for.

However an obsession with the Nazi's is somewhat odd in my mind.

[Jason the Maverick]

I heard it was tonight.

[Tory Boy]

We don't want another LABOUR party they are really LICE, see for yourself cause this is what the Time4Change lefties will be doin-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGA4R_d0Gso

[Conductor]

I have just been for a visit and they have cleared all the threads!  One of the dippys from a blogger is almost crying about it!

Why do people always have to learn the hard way

[Lieve]

I am sorry to learn you are not as wise a man as I thought you were, Stuart, really am ! You have a personal vendetta with Nick and because of your clash with his personality, you are willing to give up your own call for "policies not personalities". As a matter of fact, you go a lot further; you aim to drag down all of Time4Change, even though you do not know who they are and when you do, you do not know what they are and what they stand for. 

I know I am NOT a commie and most certainly not opportunistic or hypocrite. Jumping on the bandwagon is exactly what we constantly try to avoid, because it is very easy to be populist ; but often something that seems right at face value, becomes a bit more of a problem if you look at it in more depth. In all fairness, I think that is exactly where the JDA goes wrong at times - hence Geoff Southern withdrawing his proposition to have GST on receipts after businesses like Hallmark that were not charging GST said they would then have to. It would have been wise to go and talk to them first.

Anyway, back to the issue ... Time4Change really wants to invite people - politicians included - to have a constructrive, mature debate. That is why I enjoy reading the constructive posts on this forum. It is also why I immediately invited David Warr to speak at one of our meetings when he wrote his "wish list" in Our Island, where he urged people to this debate. And it is why we want to continue organising activities that emphasize the need for such debate. I grew up with the philosophy that your own ideas and opinions are built on stronger foundations if you allow yourself to reflect on your own arguments by listening to opposed views. When you hear why someone is against something you are all for, you may actually learn to understand WHY that person may be against, and they may actually make sense. It doesn't necessarily mean you have to completely let go of your own views, but you may refine your opinion based on what others said. After all, there is no point in us saying that we need politicians who listen to the people, if we intend to listen to only a portion of the people in Jersey as well.

Admittedly, some people in Time4Change may have a bit more difficulty with that than others - I think that is because debate does NOT seem to be the Jersey way and some have grown up with THAT philosophy. It seems so much easier to rave and rant and stab at people and groups they do not even know. Well done for telling people not to vote for the Time4Change candidates ... you do not even know who they are. Some posters here and yourself, Stuart, have already trashed our policies - not even knowing yet what they are. Time4Change has some very committed people who work hard for their beliefs and it infuriates me to see how all of them get defamed and ridiculed because you happen to thoroughly dislike one person. In my humble opinion, that is AS stupid as trashing Stuart Syvret's policies solely because you don't happen to like Stuart Syvret's personality.

Time4Change wants to be a pressure group that wants to help stimulate political awareness and debate; an organisation that amplifies the voice of those people that feel they are not being heard, showing support to good policies and propositions brought by politicians who are often ridiculed by the Establishment. We want to show all of the electorate that there ARE States members who care to listen to all of them and openly support them. Little did we expect that the kind of politicians we want to support would now turn on them. The Establishment must be having a ball !

If you have a personal problem with Nick, I am not even interested. (Oh, and unlike what you said on Saturday, I DID say the same to Nick!) If you want to have an exchange of thoughts and opinions, you know that by and large we are singing off the same hymn sheet. I would personally like to see a constructive debate between all parties involved (and I am obviously not just talking about political parties). Hell, I'd even like to enter a debate with Guy de Faye, Philip Ozouf and ooh, most definitely our Chief Minister-to-be. If we can get politics going along that route, there may be hope for Jersey still. You can't blame a girl for hoping !

Stuart, you wrote yourself : "when faced with such obsessive hate campaigns (...) I have to defend myself". I couldn't disagree with you there; that is why I - as chairperson of and spokeswoman for Time4Change now felt I had to defend myself and Time4Change as well. Now let's get over it and - like you said yourself - let's focus on the important work. Stop being Don Quixote tilting at windmills and fighting people that are not your enemies in the first place. We all know you've got your hands full already with those that are ! Let's fight our common adversaries and not each other !

Lieve Hodgetts

[Jason the Maverick]

I think many people believe in the same values to be honest, so why do Time4Change think they are the answer to everybody’s problems?.

Time4Change seems to be trying to convince people that it is a new idea, but it is exactly as the JDA were back in 05 with the same "we care"  attitude and we have heard it all before.

Why do Time4Change believe they are special enough to get peoples attention anyway?

I have been shown e-mails by one of the key spokesman calling people Ozouf lovers and Walkerites.  These e-mails have been sent to people who the sender has no idea of the real identity of, so your argument about mature debate is totally flawed.  This is childish and there is no other description.

We had a recent facebook group set up saying that everybody on this forum were wan**rs and loved Ozouf.  Again, do you honestly think people will support a group of people who do such things?

And what would such people be capable of doing if they got into power?

The website ITJ which is definitely run by Nic because he told us, removes items it doesn't want to read.  It can't even handle questions.  Time4Change cannot stomach any critics by the looks of it.  It is almost as if to say, "oh please just leave us alone we mean really well".

The childishness does not even finish there, because the BBC has a recording of the vote against the Bailiff motion debate being interrupted by a person in the gallery, who the BBC pointed out as Montfort.

You have to realize that a lot of people take politics and who to vote for very seriously.  At the moment I do not think the Time4Change idea is original and experienced enough in dealing with critics to be anything at the moment.  Besides what they have asked for is not original, none of it.  And this goes for the JDA as well to be frank.  I have spoken to people who actually left the Haute de la Garenne rally back in March (after Stuart had spoken) because they realized the rally was being used as political platform.  Again, totally out of touch with many members of the public.

They will just have to learn from this and maybe Nic isn’t the best influence on the group as Stuart has pointed out.

[Jason the Maverick]

Thats another thing.  If Time4Change is so important, where is their website?  We have elections in what, 5 weeks time, and they haven't even got a website going.

People will be asking, who are they? 

[Lieve]

I absolutely agree with most of what you say, JTM.

Many people DO believe in the same values ; that is exactly what we like to stress. So many have told me personally that they feel alone in the desert, because it seems so difficult for many here in Jersey to admit that they do sing off the same hymn sheet as person so-and-so. We honestly do not want to convince people that we bring all new ideas ; we want to enhance good ideas and policies that are already out there. That is exactly why I was saying that it would be great if all like-minded people would join hands, so that it becomes obvious how many like-minded people there are. But Rome wasn't built in one day either so ...

I cannot stress hard enough that I as well get absolutely furious when I hear about or read those negative emails and facebook websites. I fully agree "it is childish and there is no other description" (though please acknowledge the fact that a lot of mud-slinging was also done on this forum). When I accepted the chair for Time4Change, I explicitly urged members NOT to send out messages like that as it completely clashes with what we want as an association. Some of these messages were sent or posted by members, and they have been told off already. Others (like Milly Le Brun) have written in the name of Time4Change, even though we honestly do not know who they are. All Time4Change can do is keep stressing that this is not AT ALL what we want; we DO want the mature debate.

As an association Time4Change can definitely stomach constructive criticism (your reply being an example of it, and I thank you for it). I am increasingly uncomfortable about Is This Jersey, because people do use it to vent their issues in too often a negative way. All I can say is that Is This Jersey is NOT a Time4Change website, though you are right that Nick is one of the administrators and he alone bears the responsibility for the site.

I can only say, please DO take politics and who you vote for VERY seriously; it has a major impact on your lives. Time4Change has a lot more experience than you may think, and I readily admit that we are partly to blame ourselves for not having set up the website yet to let people know who we are and what we stand for. When we started getting together, though, we really did not have any idea ourselves which way we were going. But as I said, we have quite a few very committed, hard-working people and we DO learn every day. I for one (and that is only me, and there are more of us) have very strong opinions and quite a lot of ideas that might bring some positive changes to Jersey. Time4Change is not just Lieve Hodgetts, though, and it takes a while to discuss with others to what extend these policies and ideas will be Time4Change's or just mine. That is something we will constantly be working on (even after the elections) in order to get stronger. Do realise, though, that we keep saying we want to bring like-minded people together and that does not make things easier. Many people are FOR fair taxation, but all fill that in in their own way. Many think housing and child care should be more affordable, but all have their own ideas of how to get there. That is why there is a big difference between Time4Change as an association and individual people that happen to be members of Time4Change.

We do NOT have all the answers, we just want to bring people together that are willing to work together and look for some answers. We will not always get it right and are bound to make mistakes, but we will work hard at trying to avoid them. That is exactly why constructive criticism is so important !

[Jason the Maverick]

Well you say this forum does a lot of mud slinging against Time4Change but then again, I think you are the first person from Time4Change to actually come on here and defend the group.

I wouldn't narrow this down to just attacks on Time4Change though as we have a dig at everybody and I think rightly so to be frank.  I prefer to look at a suggested solution or motion and give an analysis as to whether it is possible or not.

We are not hurt by the facebook group set up against us but we did find it strange.  The other facebook groups?  I am assuming you mean the don't vote for Time 4 Change and the don't vote for the JDA groups?

To be honest, I am not surprised such groups have cropped up.  There has been too much mud slinging against the current establishment for my liking and its totally unproductive and unacceptable.  We have been listening to the rants of 'get Walker out' and 'don't vote for the GST 28' since the beginning of the Summer and whilst people may nod in agreement, nobody ever seems to come up with a point blank solution for GST and nobody seems to even acknowledge that FW is all but gone now anyway.  A lot of this time has actually been wasted by just ranting in my mind.

Time4Change?  I don't know whether this group is ready for politics.  I agree with Stuart that Montfort has potential, but whether his methods are mature enough for the big arena at the moment is questionable (at least to me).

Lieve, if you want to keep us informed of developments, objectives or just general information about Time4Change so that we can at least have a better understanding (which maybe the problem at the moment) feel free to do so.

[danrok]

Facebook is probably the worst place to attempt any form of serious political debate.

[Stuart Syvret]

Lieve

A few brief responses to what you write here.

You write:

“You have a personal vendetta with Nick and because of your clash with his personality, you are willing to give up your own call for "policies not personalities". As a matter of fact, you go a lot further; you aim to drag down all of Time4Change, even though you do not know who they are and when you do, you do not know what they are and what they stand for.”

Lieve – you may well have something to offer the community – but you need to be rid of a good deal of your naivety – and double-standards.

I didn’t have ‘a personal vendetta with Nick’. You obviously haven’t been paying any attention to the chronology. It was Nick who had the personal vendetta against me. I wasn’t writing anything against him. It was he who began to use ItJ as vehicle to mount a tedious and frankly embarrassing war against me.

He pursued a vendetta which went on for months. His recent postings under the avatar of “Tom Gruchy” and others were merely the final straw.

I fought back. I’ve defended myself – and the strange, inadequate bullying individual that is Nick Le Cornu got a taste of his own medicine.

“Policies not personalities” – yes, indeed. It’s just a pity that Nick is incapable of dealing with issues on a policy basis – all such considerations being subsumed beneath his various personal obsessions and inadequacies. 

If Nick had been criticising my “policies” – offering an alternative take – supplying some form of intellectual critique of my position – then there would have been no problem.

Instead we get “my grandfather was a Nazi” and that I’m “no good in the sack”.

(Incidentally, Nick – I may very well be “no good in the sack” – but you know what? I just don’t care – because my sense of self-worth, of self-respect, my self-confidence and my worth as a human being – are not dependent on the rickety foundations of sexual, personal insecurity – unlike you.)

Returning to Lieve’s comments.

I said you had to be rid of your naivety. You want Time4Change to succeed? It never will unless and until you and your fellow members take a look at how successful political parties gain - and retain credibility.

In order to do so – they are ruthless. No credible or respectable political party permits itself to be tainted by association with obvious eccentrics, nutters and extremists. When such people turn-up in the party – certainly in any kind of organisational capacity – let alone candidature – the party apparatus is ruthless in getting rid of them.

One dodgy individual can inflict terminal damage on an organisation.

That is the position Time4Change finds itself in with Le Cornu. If you were a remotely credible organisation – one which would have itself seen as competent to participate in government – you would have expelled Le Cornu by now.

Even if he is a friend of some of you. 

There is an old saying – “you can tell a lot about a man by the company he keeps.”

The same is true of political parties.

Stuart.